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Old 09-28-2014, 08:23 AM
 
6,324 posts, read 4,308,516 times
Reputation: 4333

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Exhibit A.
LOL!

Have you been to the thread that asks people to describe their angel sightings?

Well, of course the non-believers and skeptics had a thing or two to say about angel sightings, and the others in that thread displayed such a nose-in-the-air level of sanctimony and self-righteous smugness that I had to dive out of that thread before the contents of my stomach ended up splattered all over my keyboard.

And that's just an open thread in the S&R forum, not some semi-private thread in the Christianity forum.

Yes! You're only allowed to post here if you believe in angels and had experiences with one! Let's just ignore all of those "negative" people. What say you all? Quite right, those "negative" people won't bring us down. Yeah! Hear hear!

Gimme a break with your holier-than-thou crap, jimmiej. You're not any better. At least have the humility to admit it.
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,427 posts, read 12,725,801 times
Reputation: 2489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
LOL!

Have you been to the thread that asks people to describe their angel sightings?

Well, of course the non-believers and skeptics had a thing or two to say about angel sightings, and the others in that thread displayed such a nose-in-the-air level of sanctimony and self-righteous smugness that I had to dive out of that thread before the contents of my stomach ended up splattered all over my keyboard.

And that's just an open thread in the S&R forum, not some semi-private thread in the Christianity forum.

Yes! You're only allowed to post here if you believe in angels and had experiences with one! Let's just ignore all of those "negative" people. What say you all? Quite right, those "negative" people won't bring us down. Yeah! Hear hear!

Gimme a break with your holier-than-thou crap, jimmiej. You're not any better. At least have the humility to admit it.
I have no problem debating with atheists, in any forum. I have a problem with people telling me they're smarter than me because they reject a creator.
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,825 posts, read 13,364,699 times
Reputation: 9822
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
I have no problem debating with atheists, in any forum. I have a problem with people telling me they're smarter than me because they reject a creator.
Jimmie, excepting people who behave contrary to their rational self interest because of things like addiction, everyone does what they fancy to be "smarter" or they'd do something else. You clearly think it's smarter to accept a creator than to reject him. I don't take that personally because I don't have any ego invested in my choice to not believe in a creator. It's not based on my rightness, it is based on my assessment of available evidence. Your belief does not threaten my unbelief, in other words. I am open to change, because I don't have "bestowed rightness" to defend.

You might want to ask you why my unbelief threatens your belief. But rest assured, my unbelief does not judge you to be stupid. If you cannot give me an answer to my unbelief or provide actual evidence I'm not aware of, it may cause me to consider you intellectually blinkered, perhaps willfully so. But not stupid. I realize that intelligence is highly compartmentalized. I don't know what you do professionally but if you were, say, an accountant and I needed your services I would not hold your theism against you because your theism is irrelevant to doing my taxes and you probably don't do taxes "by faith". You do them by the law. I totally understand how someone can be a very informed and capable accountant and very confused philosophically and metaphysically.
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,427 posts, read 12,725,801 times
Reputation: 2489
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Jimmie, excepting people who behave contrary to their rational self interest because of things like addiction, everyone does what they fancy to be "smarter" or they'd do something else. You clearly think it's smarter to accept a creator than to reject him. I don't take that personally because I don't have any ego invested in my choice to not believe in a creator. It's not based on my rightness, it is based on my assessment of available evidence. Your belief does not threaten my unbelief, in other words. I am open to change, because I don't have "bestowed rightness" to defend.

You might want to ask you why my unbelief threatens your belief. But rest assured, my unbelief does not judge you to be stupid. If you cannot give me an answer to my unbelief or provide actual evidence I'm not aware of, it may cause me to consider you intellectually blinkered, perhaps willfully so. But not stupid. I realize that intelligence is highly compartmentalized. I don't know what you do professionally but if you were, say, an accountant and I needed your services I would not hold your theism against you because your theism is irrelevant to doing my taxes and you probably don't do taxes "by faith". You do them by the law. I totally understand how someone can be a very informed and capable accountant and very confused philosophically and metaphysically.
Your belief doesn't threaten me. Rudeness and condescencion is what I find offensive.
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,825 posts, read 13,364,699 times
Reputation: 9822
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Your belief doesn't threaten me. Rudeness and condescension is what I find offensive.
Good for you. There are theists who would find the post you're replying to dripping with condescension, though, because they can't brook having their beliefs questioned or not accepted. If you are able to tell the difference between honest disagreement and personal disrespect or even hate crimes, I doffs me hat to you, so I does. :-)
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Old 09-28-2014, 04:05 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,138,641 times
Reputation: 2014
I'll say one thing for you guys...you're persistent. Despite people admitting to no form of objective morality, and no way to judge anyone other than personal opinion, this thread has gone on for 127 pages with people claiming God is immoral, and that you can judge him to be so.
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Old 09-28-2014, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,094,900 times
Reputation: 14069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
I'll say one thing for you guys...you're persistent. Despite people admitting to no form of objective morality, and no way to judge anyone other than personal opinion, this thread has gone on for 127 pages with people claiming God is immoral, and that you can judge him to be so.
Yep, we can.

Too bad you can't.
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:06 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,091,970 times
Reputation: 32578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
I'll say one thing for you guys...you're persistent. Despite people admitting to no form of objective morality, and no way to judge anyone other than personal opinion, this thread has gone on for 127 pages with people claiming God is immoral, and that you can judge him to be so.
Oh, indeed, Viz! Some of us have a personal opinion and believe that the Nazis were immoral. In fact millions of people have declared that the Nazis were immoral.

Just not you.
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:57 PM
 
6,324 posts, read 4,308,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
I'll say one thing for you guys...you're persistent. Despite people admitting to no form of objective morality, and no way to judge anyone other than personal opinion, this thread has gone on for 127 pages with people claiming God is immoral, and that you can judge him to be so.
Yes, I have decreed God to be immoral. In fact, perhaps THE most immoral entity to have ever existed in either fact OR fiction.

And if any ONE of those nasty things God did had been committed by an ordinary human, YOU would find the act to be immoral, as well.

Uh huh, it's time to pay the piper, so to speak, and dispense with the crap. I don't think you're a bad or evil person, Vizio, which is why I am 99.999999999% certain that few, if any, of the things God did in the Old Testament would be considered moral in your eyes - IF a regular person committed them.

And you KNOW that it is the ACT that is inherently immoral. In other words, genocide is inherently evil. It isn't judged good or bad based on the person (or God) committing it. I'm willing to bet just about anything that when you read the OT for the first time, what God did shocked you. It sent an almost electrical jolt of revulsion though the very core of your being - because YOU intuitively know the difference between right and wrong.

It was only after the fact - after you were able to process that "holy damn" moment that wracked your morality as you read about bears ripping apart 42 kids or the Israelites being commanded to commit wholesale slaughter at the behest of your supposedly infinitely loving and impeccably fair God. It was only AFTER swallowing the bile I'm sure rose in your throat as you read those passages that you were able to begin the rationalization process - a sort of self-brainwashing - which finally allowed you to sit on this forum and defend a "might makes right" moral system with an almost terrifying amount of certitude.

Yet behind your faith, lurking beneath the years of indoctrination, the years of rationalizations, the years of swimming in dogma, your morality is STILL screaming, "Double-you, Tee, Efff" at the horrors you read about in that holy book of yours. I know this because you are a human being - and unless you're some kind of sociopath or a complete "Christian Taliban" sort of fanatic, there is no WAY you could walk away from God's flagrant immorality without feeling a sense of bitter disappointment. Wow, what a let-down that God went on a violent rampage instead of demonstrating love, kindness, compassion, and forgiveness. How many people did God heal as opposed to kill? Yeah ... big problem there, a problem that requires massive cognitive dissonance to absorb without recoiling away from this barbaric concept of Yahweh.

So you go right on defending God, espousing "might makes right," and the idea that God can be as immoral as he wishes because he's God. Sure ... keep on keeping on if that's how you REALLY feel. But I'm pretty certain that your humanity is flailing and screaming, tugging at the bars of your faith wanting to be let out of its Bible-shaped cage.
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Old 09-29-2014, 02:08 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,355,453 times
Reputation: 2988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
I'm saying that without an objective one, you have no reasonable basis for judging morality.
Except we have given you such a basis.

But the point is that your imagined basis is just that: imagined. And so your basis is just the same as ours in the end: Your own Subjectivity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
It's amazing that you suggest I cannot interpret God's morality
It's amazing that you are amazed by things I never said. I never said you can not interpret it. I simply said your interpretation is just as subjective as any other morality proposed on this thread, and your interpretation is no more (or less) valid than any other theist flailing about at a creator based morality.
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