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I remember in the 90s when the liberal media and Hollywood started mocking Christians and saying how morality in the white house didn't matter because the economy is great! The future looked so bright and then it came crashing down fast. First the dot.com crash, a recession, then 9/11, anthrax scares. In the 90s, we enjoyed watching movies about terrorists. Under Siege, Airforce One etc... Now we are living it.
God won't bless a nation that turns its back on Him. We used to be a nation that respected God. Blue laws were an example of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati
Right.
When an entire race was enslaved, when women were legal non-entities (unless married, in which case they were essentially just property) and when children slaved away in factories or mines because there were no child-labor laws.
But since they went to church in greater numbers, looked at less pornography, and properly hated gays, you think the nation in total was better then.
I can only pity someone with such monumentally screwed-up priorities.
No one is saying we were perfect. Yet, the US has led the world for 2+ centuries, despite the fact that we were a religious people. ETA: The religious led the change for many of these things you mentioned.
I remember in the 90s when the liberal media and Hollywood started mocking Christians and saying how morality in the white house didn't matter because the economy is great! The future looked so bright and then it came crashing down fast. First the dot.com crash, a recession, then 9/11, anthrax scares. In the 90s, we enjoyed watching movies about terrorists. Under Siege, Airforce One etc... Now we are living it.
God won't bless a nation that turns its back on Him. We used to be a nation that respected God. Blue laws were an example of that.
It still does, and the financial crash at least did not lead to WWIII like the wall street crash (in Godly America) led to WWII, Oh yes, Hitler would never have come to power if the American economy hadn't crashed and brought half the European economy down with it. He had next to no support until the collapse of the Mark.
The idea that it is all going to pot because of an increase in immorality because religion isn't being forced on everyone is codswallop.
No one is saying we were perfect. Yet, the US has led the world for 2+ centuries, despite the fact that we were a religious people. ETA: The religious led the change for many of these things you mentioned.
What are you babbling about with your 'perfect' comment?
Slavery, the subjugation of women, and the non-protection of children is not simply 'not perfect'. Rather, it is abysmally worse than what we have now. The United States is better, now, than it was then by virtually every metric.
Also, you should learn some history - the United States did not lead the world 2+ centuries ago. Two centuries ago this very month, the British were busy burning Washington. And while that war held the complete attention and focus of the United States, it was but a side-show for the UK, which was far more involved in the Napoleonic Wars than with the annoying tiff in North America.
The U.S. economy did not become the world's largest until the 1870s, and then it still would have less global impact than those economies dominating Europe, such as the UK, for decades to come. And the U.S. did not become the dominant cultural and military global power until well into the 20th century.
So, your claim that U.S. religiosity has driven American power is complete nonsense. That gradual waning of religion in America has correlated with America's influential rise in global affairs. Note: don't read anything into that. Unlike you, I don't try and pass of correlation as causation.
No, religion did not make the U.S. the world's largest economy - the combination of vast natural resources, a large population, and a well-managed market system did that.
No, religion did not make the U.S., the world's largest influencer of culture or the dominant military power - those were largely the direct result of the U.S. being economically dominant and having global economic interests and, militarily, being dragged into a conflict in which the protection of our national interests vaulted us into a dominant position.
Aside from that sorely needed history lesson, the fact remains that people who whine about American moral decline fixate on their now-inability to legally ban things they dislike (porn, gay sex, etc.) and ignore the true moral horrors of the past, such as the subjugation and exploitation of pretty much everyone who wasn't an straight white adult male (not to mention some of them, as well).
I repeat:
The United States is better, now, than it was then by virtually every metric.
What are you babbling about with your 'perfect' comment?
Slavery, the subjugation of women, and the non-protection of children is not simply 'not perfect'. Rather, it is abysmally worse than what we have now. The United States is better, now, than it was then by virtually every metric.
Also, you should learn some history - the United States did not lead the world 2+ centuries ago. Two centuries ago this very month, the British were busy burning Washington. And while that war held the complete attention and focus of the United States, it was but a side-show for the UK, which was far more involved in the Napoleonic Wars than with the annoying tiff in North America.
The U.S. economy did not become the world's largest until the 1870s, and then it still would have less global impact than those economies dominating Europe, such as the UK, for decades to come. And the U.S. did not become the dominant cultural and military global power until well into the 20th century.
So, your claim that U.S. religiosity has driven American power is complete nonsense. That gradual waning of religion in America has correlated with America's influential rise in global affairs. Note: don't read anything into that. Unlike you, I don't try and pass of correlation as causation.
No, religion did not make the U.S. the world's largest economy - the combination of vast natural resources, a large population, and a well-managed market system did that.
No, religion did not make the U.S., the world's largest influencer of culture or the dominant military power - those were largely the direct result of the U.S. being economically dominant and having global economic interests and, militarily, being dragged into a conflict in which the protection of our national interests vaulted us into a dominant position.
Aside from that sorely needed history lesson, the fact remains that people who whine about American moral decline fixate on their now-inability to legally ban things they dislike (porn, gay sex, etc.) and ignore the true moral horrors of the past, such as the subjugation and exploitation of pretty much everyone who wasn't an straight white adult male (not to mention some of them, as well).
I repeat:
The United States is better, now, than it was then by virtually every metric.
Where did I say that (bolded above)? Your reading comprehension is suspect.
Looks like the "nones" are gaining... quickly. Good to see reason is finally making strides and accelerating. Soon hopefully we at least in North America will have relegated those believing in ancient tales to the side lines.
The Top Ten Things That Prove There is No God
1. No tweets from God.
2. No God at the Grammys. OK, I know Kanye THINKS he is god, but that doesn't count.
3. His Facebook image is just a drawing. A REAL God would have posted a photo.
4. He has never talked to me. Not once ... not even a whisper.
5. Too many mean people for there to really be a God.
6. If there were a God he'd make my scratchers winners.
7. No God on Madden.
8. Did you see God at the Academy Awards? Exactly.
9. A merciful God would keep gas prices below $1 a gallon.
What are you babbling about with your 'perfect' comment?
Slavery, the subjugation of women, and the non-protection of children is not simply 'not perfect'. Rather, it is abysmally worse than what we have now. The United States is better, now, than it was then by virtually every metric.
Also, you should learn some history - the United States did not lead the world 2+ centuries ago. Two centuries ago this very month, the British were busy burning Washington. And while that war held the complete attention and focus of the United States, it was but a side-show for the UK, which was far more involved in the Napoleonic Wars than with the annoying tiff in North America.
The U.S. economy did not become the world's largest until the 1870s, and then it still would have less global impact than those economies dominating Europe, such as the UK, for decades to come. And the U.S. did not become the dominant cultural and military global power until well into the 20th century.
So, your claim that U.S. religiosity has driven American power is complete nonsense. That gradual waning of religion in America has correlated with America's influential rise in global affairs. Note: don't read anything into that. Unlike you, I don't try and pass of correlation as causation.
No, religion did not make the U.S. the world's largest economy - the combination of vast natural resources, a large population, and a well-managed market system did that.
No, religion did not make the U.S., the world's largest influencer of culture or the dominant military power - those were largely the direct result of the U.S. being economically dominant and having global economic interests and, militarily, being dragged into a conflict in which the protection of our national interests vaulted us into a dominant position.
Aside from that sorely needed history lesson, the fact remains that people who whine about American moral decline fixate on their now-inability to legally ban things they dislike (porn, gay sex, etc.) and ignore the true moral horrors of the past, such as the subjugation and exploitation of pretty much everyone who wasn't an straight white adult male (not to mention some of them, as well).
I repeat:
The United States is better, now, than it was then by virtually every metric.
Every metric? We now live in a reality where we can no longer be protected by oceans. In generations past, Americans could feel pretty safe that we wouldn't be attacked on American soil. Now it is just a matter of time before one of these radical nations gets a nuke and then all bets are off.
Our nation now has the greatest level of debt in US history. The US ranks below many other nations on a wide rank scale of metrics including education. Yes, we are declining.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,925,051 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Every metric? We now live in a reality where we can no longer be protected by oceans. In generations past, Americans could feel pretty safe that we wouldn't be attacked on American soil. Now it is just a matter of time before one of these radical nations gets a nuke and then all bets are off.
Our nation now has the greatest level of debt in US history. The US ranks below many other nations on a wide rank scale of metrics including education. Yes, we are declining.
And the more secular nations are ascending.
About time the US got with the program. Oh, wait, many already are.
I will disagree. I've made policy decisions made on the best available science for over 2 decades. The problem with GMO's is that the unknown and unintended consequences that arise... genetic diversity only being one. Think of it in terms of introduction of nonnative species and the negative impacts they have on the indigenous habitat.
Rabbits in Australia and kudzu in the US being only two examples.
Here's what some U of Colorado biology profs think about GMOs:
Commissioners made the right decision on GMOs - Boulder Daily Camera
**The anti-GMO activists are to the biological sciences what the climate change deniers are to the atmospheric research community. Both groups believe in fringe science, and in myths disseminated by activist websites. Both groups also dismiss peer-reviewed studies by mainstream scientists, and both groups are actively supported and funded by billion-dollar corporations associated with the fossil fuel and the organic food industries respectively. . . . Rob Knight, Associate Professor, Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry and Biofrontiers Institute, University of Colorado at Boulder, and Howard Hughes Medical Institute Early Career Scientist; Sharon Collinge, Professor, Department of Ecology & Evolutionary Biology and Program in Environmental Studies, CU; Leslie Leinwand, Professor, Department of Molecular, Cellular & DevelopmentalBiology, and Chief Scientific Officer, Biofrontiers Institute, CU, and Howard Hughes Medical Institute Professor.
This guest opinion was also co-signed by three additional professors in the MCDB and EEB departments at CU.**
Guest opinion: Two dozen studies show GM foods safe - Boulder Daily Camera
**In the 1990s the tabloid press in England discovered that it could make lots of money publishing scary articles about "Frankenstein foods." Since then, opponents of plant genetic engineering have been claiming that eating GM (genetically modified) foods is dangerous. They like to quote Arpad Pusztai, who reported in 1999 that rats fed a diet of raw, experimental GM potatoes expressing a sugar-binding lectin protein developed a thicker gut epithelium than when fed control potatoes. These days, the Frankenstein food myth is being kept alive by non-reviewed Internet articles and YouTube videos posted on anti-GMO websites. . . . Andrew Staehelin is a professor emeritus of the Department of Molecular, Cellular and Developmental Biology at the University of Colorado Boulder.**
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