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Old 09-12-2014, 03:47 AM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,692,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
It's just like the discussion of morality...we need to recognize that there is something that exists above us, that is not part of our closed system.
Why must we have that need? Until some evidence is provided to prove this, I have no need to recognize it.
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Old 09-12-2014, 04:00 AM
 
16,431 posts, read 22,194,526 times
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God was not created, He has always been. He is the creator of all that exists. Keep in mind that God also created time, which is linear and has a beginning and end. God exists in Eternity which has no beginning or end. We are trapped in time and can't help but think in terms of beginnings and ends. It is very hard if not impossible for us to grasp the concept of Eternity and Infinity. God can't explain it to our limited intellects, and described Himself to us only as "I Am".
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Old 09-12-2014, 04:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
So you are saying the vast majority of the world's population are ignorant and arrogant? Let's remind ourselves that you have zero ZILCH proof that there is no God. That is your wishful thinking. The natural beauty of the world alone suggests that it was done by a Creator, not random events or processes.
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Old 09-12-2014, 04:03 AM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,692,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
God was not created, He has always been. He is the creator of all that exists. Keep in mind that God also created time, which is linear and has a beginning and end. God exists in Eternity which has no beginning or end. We are trapped in time and can't help but think in terms of beginnings and ends. It is very hard if not impossible for us to grasp the concept of Eternity and Infinity. God can't explain it to our limited intellects, and described Himself to us only as "I Am".
Do you have any evidence to support your assertions?
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Old 09-12-2014, 04:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
Do you have any evidence to support your assertions?
All of creation. But you can prove me wrong by creating just one living cell.
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Old 09-12-2014, 04:40 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,372,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
All of creation.
All of creation.... is your evidence for.... your explanation for all of creation. Circular Argument much?

This is like going into a court of law and declaring that your evidence that the accused performed the murder..... is the murder.
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Old 09-12-2014, 04:53 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,172 posts, read 26,189,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
All of creation. But you can prove me wrong by creating just one living cell.
Man didn't create the cell to begin with so why would you expect that he do so now just to prove a point?
If you can ask something like this, should we not be able to ask that your god present us with some indisputable miraculous type event to prove it's existence?
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Old 09-12-2014, 06:15 AM
 
16,431 posts, read 22,194,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Man didn't create the cell to begin with so why would you expect that he do so now just to prove a point?
If you can ask something like this, should we not be able to ask that your god present us with some indisputable miraculous type event to prove it's existence?
Creation is that miraculous event.
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Old 09-12-2014, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,172 posts, read 26,189,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Creation is that miraculous event.

I know my memory is poor but I don't recall witnessing that nor do I know anyone who did.
Were you there??
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Old 09-12-2014, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,542 posts, read 4,093,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I specifically avoided the term Creator because all that is needed is that our reality BE God. However it came to be it is responsible for absolutely everything that exists. If we do not consider God to be equal to whatever is responsible for our very existence and everything else that exists . . . what else COULD a God ever be???? Life and everything involved in the processes that control and drive our reality need not be the result of God's Will . . . they may simply be the processes that are mandated by existence. Reality is constantly changing. Life IS change. God is clearly a living God. Our existence if part of it. God is NOT an explanation . . . just what IS. Our human speculations about God are just that . . . speculations and have nothing to do with God's existence. That is a given.
But it doesn't.

God is an objective fact. Either God exists or God doesn't exist. There isn't anything in between that because that simply doesn't make sense.

However, it's very clear you have been using a different definition of God than I have.

What I'm saying is that God (singular or pluaral) is some form of supernatural entity that would have put the universe into motion (through expansion) and created the first bits of life that would evolve to what we are, and possibly what other life outside of Earth is, if such life exists.

Some think it's a literal man who lives in the heavens above Earth, watching down on us, creating each of us individually, determine what happens on Earth, and judges us in the afterlife.

You, if I'm understanding this, view God as not a literal being, but a concept that unifies all things. Basically, the laws of Physics. Correct me if I'm wrong, because this conversation can't possibly continue if we aren't on the same page. I'm more than happy to use your definition in this discussion but I do need you to be more clear on what that definition is.
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