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Actually, the bible is pretty mean spirited when it comes to children.
Children who refuse to obey their parents must be executed. Nothing about any public trial, just about a mob that kills a child.
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21
Strike your parent, no matter what the reason and they are commanded to kill. Even if that parent is abusing the child? Or a pedophile? No excuses given. Just kill.
He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. -- Exodus 21:15
And death for cursing?????
He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. -- Exodus 21:17
And why not have the wildlife a go at it also. Children who mock their parents will have their eyes plucked out by ravens and eaten by eagles.
The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. -- Proverbs 30:17
God gets into the act and killed all the firstborn children in an entire country.
The LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon.... And there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead. -- Exodus 12:29-30
Sometimes God kills children for misbehaving.
And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. -- 2 Kings 2:23-24
Someday God will force parents eat their own children.
And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. -- Leviticus 26:29
And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters. -- Deuteronomy 28:53
And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend. -- Jeremiah 19:9
And then there's this statement, which could only be found in the Bible:
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. -- Psalm 137:9
So, tell me again where all this love for children is in the bible? Where is the protection from abuse, whether sexual or physical? There is nothing but beatings and death.
I take you have never seen a wicked child?
And the scripture concerning eagles and ravens is a context. Not being there who are we to say anything. Though these were not commandments of God but statutes laid down by Priest and elders. We can extrapolate in later scriptures that this behavior brought forth Gods judgement. You have to read the history. Jeremiah explains a lot. The book of Judges better because this was before the formation of a King to lead. When David was chosen he was not perfect of course but he listened.
If you wish to argue interference that is a perspective of time we do not share.
Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.
Another one twisted by agenda. This is what it really says. Happy is the enemy.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
It also shows Jesus cared for children.
Ephesians 6:4
4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
Colossians 3:21
21 Parents, don’t come down too hard on your children or you’ll crush their spirits.
Thanks for these quotes. They partially fulfill my question, but only partially. BTW, you are the first to actually answer the question, and I truly do appreciate the effort.
Ephesians 6 is a prayer, so it is a request from the prayee to God. It is a good request, but in context (there is that word always thrown at me), it is not an admonition from God, but a plea to him. I don't think one can look at this in the same light as the admonitions or complete avoidance of child abuse in the rest of the bible.
Colossians 3 is a bit different matter. Again, context.
It basically says it is a two way street. Colossians 3:20 says:
3:20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.
followed by:
3:21 Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.
So, although the two quotes you outlined do touch on the issue, how do you reconcile them with the plethora of quotes that do the exact opposite, and condone and even command abuse, beatings and avoid any mention of sexual abuse at all?
First of all, let's frame the discussion by saying, generally speaking, the following makes as much or more sense than the Ten Commandments or other "moral orders" outlined in the bible, torah or other 'holy' books.
Now that we have that outlined, let's deal with some specifics.
Most people view child abuse as abhorrent, yet the bible says nothing against that. In fact, it even goes as far as saying to stone a recalcitrant child. It worries about "graven images", yet can't say one thing, in the OT or the NT, about some of the most vulnerable people of our society.
Why is that? Are children chattels? Are they there for adults use, no matter how abhorrent that use may be?
What kind of god allows that?
Yes, yes, we know all about Matthew 19:14. Jesus is just referring to children also going to that magical palace in the sky, it says nothing about protecting them from beatings, abuse or predators.
So, ye of much faith, why does the bible not say anything about not abusing children? Why does it say nothing about beating the child, other than Proverbs 13:24, "He who spares his rod [of discipline] hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines diligently and punishes him early." (AMP version).
The morals taught in the bible fail the most vulnerable, children. By being silent on the most abhorrent issues of abuse, it sanctions them.
It is time to throw those morals away, and start promoting those in the cartoon above.
Perhaps you can enlighten me. Where does it say we ought to beat our children?
And while we're at it....so what if it did? Is that wrong? Why? Or is it that you just don't LIKE it?
Thanks for these quotes. They partially fulfill my question, but only partially. BTW, you are the first to actually answer the question, and I truly do appreciate the effort.
Ephesians 6 is a prayer, so it is a request from the prayee to God. It is a good request, but in context (there is that word always thrown at me), it is not an admonition from God, but a plea to him. I don't think one can look at this in the same light as the admonitions or complete avoidance of child abuse in the rest of the bible.
Colossians 3 is a bit different matter. Again, context.
It basically says it is a two way street. Colossians 3:20 says:
3:20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.
followed by:
3:21 Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.
So, although the two quotes you outlined do touch on the issue, how do you reconcile them with the plethora of quotes that do the exact opposite, and condone and even command abuse, beatings and avoid any mention of sexual abuse at all?
I will disregard your last point about "avoid any mention of sexual abuse at all". Absence does not prove disregard.
Otherwise, you continue to avoid context. What are the reasons behind these commands you speak of?
*It's interesting how you begrudgingly admit that the verses above proved you wrong. Were you not aware of these passages?
I don't know the exact verses/passages but I think there is something that speaks about incest, right? Also sexual deviance, and molesting kids would fall into that category. Then there is the whole thing about treating others the way you want to be treated.
I am not sure if you are looking for something more specific, like "thou shall not molest the little kids"? How old would they have to be to be considered kids? It was normal for teens to be getting married and having kids during those times, and maybe sex with 5 year olds was not that common? The Bible talks a lot about things that were happening during those times, so maybe molesting kids was not really an issue? Again, speaking out against incest would kinda cover that though, and saying to treat your kids kindly.
Yes, the Bible has some stuff that talks about stoning children and other weird things, but I think people (including some Christians it seems) are misinterpreting those stories.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Perhaps you can enlighten me. Where does it say we ought to beat our children?
And while we're at it....so what if it did? Is that wrong? Why? Or is it that you just don't LIKE it?
If you can't even read the examples provided in the quoted text, and elsewhere in this thread, you obviously are being willfully blind. That would be your problem, not mine. Of course, if you can justify child abuse, either physical or sexual, one can remember the "spare the rod" mantra used to be, and may still be, screamed from the pulpits by those in your profession. We won't even get into the subject of how many of those in your profession sexually abused children.
It appears that reality is not an issue for. That is sad.
If you can't even read the examples provided in the quoted text, and elsewhere in this thread, you obviously are being willfully blind. That would be your problem, not mine. Of course, if you can justify child abuse, either physical or sexual, one can remember the "spare the rod" mantra used to be, and may still be, screamed from the pulpits by those in your profession. We won't even get into the subject of how many of those in your profession sexually abused children.
It appears that reality is not an issue for. That is sad.
That verse says nothing about child abuse. I'm waiting for you to get me an actual quote that does. Don't give me a line about how sinful people MIGHT use it. Give me an actual Bible verse that says it, please.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
I will disregard your last point about "avoid any mention of sexual abuse at all". Absence does not prove disregard.
Otherwise, you continue to avoid context. What are the reasons behind these commands you speak of?
*It's interesting how you begrudgingly admit that the verses above proved you wrong. Were you not aware of these passages?
Perhaps since you think there is good reason to stone children or otherwise abuse them as outlined in your bible, perhaps you should share those good reasons.
Many of us can't.
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