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No the world isn`t perfect. But there is an order to things.The earth is just the right distance from the sun,the way the earth rotates,oxygen,carbon dioxide. If we all evolved out of the same primordial slime,why isn`t there a missing link? It would have taken billions and billions of years for all of the species to evolve. But nowhere is there a fossil of one species evolving into something else. The earth should be littered with these transformations. Just think how many different species of animal life there all. How long would it have taken just for man to evolve from an ape.. bilions of years? But how long would it have taken for horses to evolve,birds,cats,snakes etc. all into these different life forms. But we find nothing. They have been digging and digging and found northing. Sure, everytime something different looking pops up it`s ....oh this is it..this is it...we found the missing link! But it never is. But that`s my point..we should be tripping over these fossils. It`s astonishing when you think how long it would take for just one thing to grow legs or whatever. Never mind something so complex as an eye. Think about just the eye. The nerve endings,lenses,etc. just to make an eye function..incredible. But it all just happened out of nothing? I mean no one any disrespect..but it`s almost unfathomable to me that anyone could really believe that. I think it takes a greater leap of faith to believe that than intelligent design. Also,as much as some scientist try to disprove the bible through archeology ,they have been unable. The opposite seems to happen. Ancient cities that they used to say never existed have been discovered. King David who was once thought of as a mythical character,has been found to be a real person through cave inscriptions etc. I know people will believe what they want to believe but if you have an open mind and really seek the truth,I honestly think intelligent design is the only logical conclusion!
Is there a specific point in your paragraph you'd like me to refute or would you like me to annihilate your entire argument as a whole? The latter option may be a bit longer and require some more time to respond to as you brought up many points that aren't solved by one-line sentences, however, I'll be more than glad to liquify every sentence in your paragraph if you so choose.
So that leads me to ask the following question then.
If we are just born from "nothing" and then die to "nothing" in a relatively short time frame what does the atheist think the point or meaning of life is?
Thanks again for the previous replies.
Why do you assume that there's any inherent meaning? Is it because someone posed that meaningless question to you as a means of causing anxiety?
Who says being a jerk is wrong? Who are you to tell me that being a jerk is wrong? For that matter, what's wrong with hurting someone? It happens in nature all the time. Primates hurt one another. Why should we be any different?
And with one as well. But IMHO with one, it takes on a whole new wonderful meaning.
So if a meaningful life is wife swapping...that's okay by your standards? What if it becomes so with your wife...and not you?
What if - your daughter wanted to shack up with a guy at the age of 16 and told you it brings more meaning to her life?
Happy and better by who's definition?
Well, then answer the question! It was simple. What is the meaning of life according to an atheist! You said you have "plenty of meaning"...share it!
Cool, so if someone rapes your wife or beats up your child to take his lunch - that's okay? I mean who is anyone to tell you what is wrong or right? There is no such thing as objective morals (Things that exist whether you believe them or not) - because then there is a God.
Death is certain...what you have in it, is not. You can wake up tomorrow with cancer. Then what? Oh right, fade to black while your children and wife fend for themselves.
Your "nature" sounds more cruel than the "supposed" cruel God you claim doesn't exist!
Says who? Who's behavior?
Then please share the meaning and point! That's all I asked!
This has sparked interest on another subject regarding atheism that I am curious about - another thread though.
This whole tirade tells me that you're really not interested in getting an answer. What you want is for atheists to answer questions in a way that justifies what you think about them, because you keep reframing the argument and putting words in people's mouths. That way, you can go off and praise your God and feel smug about how morally superior you are. Face it: Nothing we say will ever be good enough for you.
I can tell you that I don't steal, I don't cheat on my taxes, I love my wife with all my heart, I donate to charity, I've never taken drugs, I hardly ever drink, I'm pro-life to the point of being a vegetarian, and I've never thrown a punch in my life ... and that I do all of these things without believing in a God who will judge me or reward me. I can tell you that I find meaning in life from having friends, making people happy, listening to good music, eating delicious food, enjoying a beautiful sunrise, learning something new every day, and pondering the vastness and mysteries of the universe with an open and inquisitve mind. I can tell you that people in general behave and follow the rules because (1) they have consciences that tell them right from wrong, (2) because they understand the limitations that a social contract places on them, and (3) because we can put ourselves in other people's shoes and know how we'd want to be treated -- and by the way, the Golden Rule was expressed by Confucius and the Buddha long before Jesus spoke it. I can tell you that religion is no guarantee of good behavior, that Christians commit atrocities just as much as nonbelievers do, and that I'm more suspicious of people who behave only because they fear punishment after death than I am of people who behave simply because they know it's the right thing to do -- for themselves, for society, and for the world -- and that doing so will increase happiness and peace in the world, and that that is reward enough. I can tell you that your life is as happy or as miserable as you choose to make it, and that it has nothing to do with belief in a deity. I can point out that Buddhists are extremely moral people, even though they don't recognize a God at all. I can tell you all of this, and you'd fire back with, "So you're telling me that life is a pointless crapshoot and anything goes."
I've seen this attitude coming from Christians time and time again. And it's this self-righteous denigration of others that helped precipitate my own exit from Christianity. As Gandhi once said, and I agree with it 100%, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."
..."Cool, so if someone rapes your wife or beats up your child to take his lunch - that's okay? I mean who is anyone to tell you what is wrong or right? There is no such thing as objective morals (Things that exist whether you believe them or not) - because then there is a God....."
Doing the right thing is a practical way to live. It doesn't require a deity of any sort. A belief in God is not going to keep you from being raped. A belief in God will not protect your child or his lunch. A belief in God simply allows you to blame the unpleasant things in life on God as being part of His unknown plan.
Atheists think that the unpleasant facts of everyday life are due to human causes. While the man in India lives a horrible life by our standards, his life may be vastly better than his fathers. And perhaps his son, if he has one, will have even a better life. Blame his life on Man. Don't excuse it as a sign that he doesn't believe as a Christian does.
I believe this life is all we have, so I am going to enjoy it while I can. That does not mean that I am morally bankrupt however. I believe in right and wrong and to live life in a way I think is right, I feel I have to treat people well. I don't do it for fear of going to hell but because its the right thing to do.
Am I mistaken or did you not start this thread? You asked what others believe, right?
I'm thinking the appropriate response to those answering your supposed question should be more along the lines of..."Thanks for answering MY question."
Did you ask because you were curious or did you want to argue because you believe you're 'right'??
Is there a specific point in your paragraph you'd like me to refute or would you like me to annihilate your entire argument as a whole? The latter option may be a bit longer and require some more time to respond to as you brought up many points that aren't solved by one-line sentences, however, I'll be more than glad to liquify every sentence in your paragraph if you so choose.
Don't waste your time, some people choose to be blinded by faith and facts only get in the way. Reason , common sense and "worse" of all Science will never amount to much in the face of superstition.
Two camps on such opposite sides of the fence can never ever even attempt to find a middle common ground...
Years of indoctrination will never enable some people to look at facts, and on going discoveries ( as well as already established ones) with a rational and intellectually challenging outlook.
I agree with you 100% but you're on the road to nowhere with that one... Trust me. Been there, done that , tore my hair out, threw my hands in the air with bemusement and utter disbelief at what I was hearing and gave up... I'm sure you have more stamina but save yourself whilst you can...
There's none so blind and deaf as those who do not wish to see or hear etc...
Don't waste your time, some people choose to be blinded by faith and facts only get in the way. Reason , common sense and "worse" of all Science will never amount to much in the face of superstition.
Two camps on such opposite sides of the fence can never ever even attempt to find a middle common ground...
Years of indoctrination will never enable some people to look at facts, and on going discoveries ( as well as already established ones) with a rational and intellectually challenging outlook.
I agree with you 100% but you're on the road to nowhere with that one... Trust me. Been there, done that , tore my hair out, threw my hands in the air with bemusement and utter disbelief at what I was hearing and gave up... I'm sure you have more stamina but save yourself whilst you can...
There's none so blind and deaf as those who do not wish to see or hear etc...
Well, the thing that irks me is not so much the misunderstanding of evolutionary theory, natural selection, etc... I don't really care about someone's misunderstanding of it as long as they don't try to bring me down to what they believe evolution is. The common tactic seems to be to make claims as to what I believe. For example, the eye argument. Presenting the argument that I, ME!, believes that an eye just appeared out of nothing is downright rude and disrespectful to my intelligence. If you don't know about the theory of evolution, I'm not going to hammer you. Just don't try to tell me what the theory of evolution is if you haven't the slightest clue.
Let me put it this way. If anyone wants to debate the merits of Darwinian evolution, than we need to be talking about what Darwin actually said. Don't put words in my mouth or a belief in my mind that doesn't exist. Similarly, an argument from incredulity (I can't believe the eye is so complex therefore a sky wizard did it) is not an effective argument.
Oh, what am I doing... Bad Troop! I'm sitting here pleading my case to someone who already knows... Sorry, Moose, this post wasn't directed so much at you as it was the other guy who seems to think that I believe an eye just appeared one day.
That must be strange just thinking there is nothing after you die. If there isn't a point to anything, then why do it?
It would be nice if there was a reason for everything and it was spelled out for us. Unfortunately, while I type this, a star could be nova'ing somewhere in space. Is there a reason for it? Yes, it sort of used up its fuel.
Well, the thing that irks me is not so much the misunderstanding of evolutionary theory, natural selection, etc... I don't really care about someone's misunderstanding of it as long as they don't try to bring me down to what they believe evolution is. The common tactic seems to be to make claims as to what I believe. For example, the eye argument. Presenting the argument that I, ME!, believes that an eye just appeared out of nothing is downright rude and disrespectful to my intelligence. If you don't know about the theory of evolution, I'm not going to hammer you. Just don't try to tell me what the theory of evolution is if you haven't the slightest clue.
Let me put it this way. If anyone wants to debate the merits of Darwinian evolution, than we need to be talking about what Darwin actually said. Don't put words in my mouth or a belief in my mind that doesn't exist. Similarly, an argument from incredulity (I can't believe the eye is so complex therefore a sky wizard did it) is not an effective argument.
Oh, what am I doing... Bad Troop! I'm sitting here pleading my case to someone who already knows... Sorry, Moose, this post wasn't directed so much at you as it was the other guy who seems to think that I believe an eye just appeared one day.
Believe me I am one of the "converted", I feel your pain my brother, I am just trying to avoid you more !
Science and facts versus Faith and beliefs ? I think religion will "win" that one out as believers never seem to change.
Science almost by definition IS change so we are constantly evolving in our knowledge, accepting the fluidity of it. What to me makes it so exciting about Science is the never-ending changes and constant new discoveries.
We are not arrogant enough to believe we know everything and accept that there is always room to improve on our knowledge.
Believers seem to like solid predictability and a never-changing philosophy.
As mentioned before , we might as well talk to a brick wall !
Comfort yourself by knowing that whether people accept evolution , particle and quantum physics or the validity of paleontology or archaeology datings, it goes on regardless !
The Universe needs no "faith" in it to exist. It just is. No need to worship it. No need it to build it churches and pray to it. No need to worry about an after-life. What an elegant and very classy Universe we have indeed !
Did you ever read "The Elegant Universe and String Theory" by Brian Green ? Fascinating if a tad complicated to follow in parts .
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