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Oh, you're sort of a pantheist...god is in everything. I am familiar with that too.
But it didn't work for me. I see people and objects as they are.
I had truly tried to find God or a god. I joined 6 different denominations over my life. I tried it all. There was always someone new, who said, "Try again." As if they would be the right connection this time, they could make it come true.
I have had my sincerity doubted, but it would be silly to be doubted when I spent so much time, effort, and even money to find God. I was told I wasn't looking in the right places, so I looked in the "right places" and still didn't find him.
Then I got mad. I figured, if God wanted me to find him, he would meet me half way. Why would he be so hard, so obtuse, and make it so difficult?
And when I questioned so many people about when they found God, they were so nonchalant. Some even claimed to have met him. I thought,if someone met God, that would surely be the BIGGEST event to have happened in the history of mankind. That person should be screaming in the streets, going on CNN, you name it. And, if God talks to them, they should tape record it. I've gotten looks like "you're kidding." No...I'm not kidding...why wouldn't you tape it???? Why would someone make claims like that and not want to show everyone, back it up, and share the discovery???
Then there are the people who claim God talks to them, but it's really just their thoughts. They must have a bell go off which tells them what thoughts are theirs and which thoughts come from God. Now, since it would be really difficult to know this, why would God speak to someone in thoughts, instead of a voice.I have actually had believers tell me he can't because he is a spirit. I thought he was all-powerful.
It's too convenient. Anyone can claim God gave them thoughts about anything. There is always the doubt who it came from. I think speaking in tongues is like that too.
Oh, you're sort of a pantheist...god is in everything. I am familiar with that too.
But it didn't work for me. I see people and objects as they are.
I had truly tried to find God or a god. I joined 6 different denominations over my life. I tried it all. There was always someone new, who said, "Try again." As if they would be the right connection this time, they could make it come true.
I have had my sincerity doubted, but it would be silly to be doubted when I spent so much time, effort, and even money to find God. I was told I wasn't looking in the right places, so I looked in the "right places" and still didn't find him.
Then I got mad. I figured, if God wanted me to find him, he would meet me half way. Why would he be so hard, so obtuse, and make it so difficult?
And when I questioned so many people about when they found God, they were so nonchalant. Some even claimed to have met him. I thought,if someone met God, that would surely be the BIGGEST event to have happened in the history of mankind. That person should be screaming in the streets, going on CNN, you name it. And, if God talks to them, they should tape record it. I've gotten looks like "you're kidding." No...I'm not kidding...why wouldn't you tape it???? Why would someone make claims like that and not want to show everyone, back it up, and share the discovery???
Then there are the people who claim God talks to them, but it's really just their thoughts. They must have a bell go off which tells them what thoughts are theirs and which thoughts come from God. Now, since it would be really difficult to know this, why would God speak to someone in thoughts, instead of a voice.I have actually had believers tell me he can't because he is a spirit. I thought he was all-powerful.
It's too convenient. Anyone can claim God gave them thoughts about anything. There is always the doubt who it came from. I think speaking in tongues is like that too.
Although pantheism is quite fascinating, and I can see how it's seems reasonable to take that view for some, I am a Mono-Theist, a Christian.
I have not heard audible voices, or seen anything. I have not witnessed anything that defies explanation.
The best way I can articulate God to one who has no faith in God in a jargon that we both might understand, is to say that God = Love.
When we then discuss Love, we all seem to be more or less on the same page, and can then understand each other much better.
Nebulous1, I have read most of your posts here, and I understand your position..Religion just about turned me to athiesism or agnosticism..It was the many doctrines, legalisms, boastings and judgements and sorry to say hate that nearly destroyed me...When I separated religion from God and cleared my mind of all the manmade rules that were embedded in me, I finally found God..and peace...and understanding and respect for people who do follow "religion"..I came to the conclusion that a personal relationship with God is what he desires, and that mine may be different, but it doesn't make it wrong...I think a lot of our relationship with God is based on what we have encountered in the past when we more or less put mans word above Gods word...
nebulous - read The Four Agreements By Don Miguel Ruiz. You might like that. It is Toltec Wisdom and contains great truths.
God is within and is defined and understood by you and you alone. When you try to make the god(s) of some religion conform, it becomes confusing and often irritating.
Find your own peace inside and you find God. It is far more simple than complex, actually.
Nebulous1, I have read most of your posts here, and I understand your position..Religion just about turned me to athiesism or agnosticism..It was the many doctrines, legalisms, boastings and judgements and sorry to say hate that nearly destroyed me...When I separated religion from God and cleared my mind of all the manmade rules that were embedded in me, I finally found God..and peace...and understanding and respect for people who do follow "religion"..I came to the conclusion that a personal relationship with God is what he desires, and that mine may be different, but it doesn't make it wrong...I think a lot of our relationship with God is based on what we have encountered in the past when we more or less put mans word above Gods word...
Thanks for your post, Blue...but where did you find God? I have been to many churches.I don't see anyone, or feel anyone or hear anything.
Thanks for your post, Blue...but where did you find God? I have been to many churches.I don't see anyone, or feel anyone or hear anything.
Some people do seem to find God within the walls of a church or in the wisdom of man..I would never say they can't..It just didn't work for me..I thought that if God was pure love and created a world full of beauty for us that He had no favorite group of people..I figured that He would love everyone the same and not just lay down rules for one group.to spend eternity with Him (wherever or whatever that may be).I believe the bible is inspired only to the extent that man tried to explain God to the ancient people..I do believe that God had a part of preserving the main teachings of the bible..I couldn't find God in Church..All I found was confusion about the rules that were laid down by well meaning men thousands of years ago...I believed in a creator and wanted to know Him..So I prayed that God would remove every manmade rule and teaching from my soul and that He would allow His spirit to be my guide, and my teacher from then on..It did not happen instantly, no miracle for me..I was compelled though to read a little history, a little about the different forms of literature and even the ancient cultures..I continued to pray and talk to God, and over time I began to experience a peace with myself and God that I had never had before..Once I realized that that peace came from a developed personal relatiopnship with God, my faith began to grow to the point that I feel no need to force my beliefs on anyone or to judge their beliefs, because I don't know what their personal relationship may be..If someone asks me how and why I am what I am I just tell them that I have a personal relationship with God..
Actually, recent dating has put it to about 45AD now.
JViello - that is not a "recent" dating, but a school of thought from a group known as Preterists. The earlier dating is held by very few scholars and mostly by those who wish to equate the John of the Gospel with the John of Revelation (even though they were written in entirely different Greek). The earlier date for Revelation is so as to believe that it predicted the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, but it fails to take many other historical facts into consideration. The most widely accepted date among objective scholars is 90 AD.
I was ordained in Michigan in 1977. I received my Master of Divinity Degree from Bangor (Maine) Theological Seminary in 1977, too. I have continued to preach and study and teach - including classes on Revelation I am teaching right now. My research is current.
Thanks for your interest.
Last edited by Alpha8207; 01-20-2008 at 11:04 PM..
Reason: edited quoted post
JViello - that is not a "recent" dating, but a school of thought from a group known as Preterists.
Thanks for acknowledging the 45 AD point. Keeping all the facts on the table at least lets people decide for themselves. Ignoring it, is underhanded at best whether one agrees with the point or not.
As one of my professors once stopped me cold in the middle of making a statment said - "Son, you can find a scholar to agree with just about anything you want to fit your arguement - I'm telling you what the Bible says".
Some people do seem to find God within the walls of a church or in the wisdom of man..I would never say they can't..It just didn't work for me..I thought that if God was pure love and created a world full of beauty for us that He had no favorite group of people..I figured that He would love everyone the same and not just lay down rules for one group.to spend eternity with Him (wherever or whatever that may be).I believe the bible is inspired only to the extent that man tried to explain God to the ancient people..I do believe that God had a part of preserving the main teachings of the bible..I couldn't find God in Church..All I found was confusion about the rules that were laid down by well meaning men thousands of years ago...I believed in a creator and wanted to know Him..So I prayed that God would remove every manmade rule and teaching from my soul and that He would allow His spirit to be my guide, and my teacher from then on..It did not happen instantly, no miracle for me..I was compelled though to read a little history, a little about the different forms of literature and even the ancient cultures..I continued to pray and talk to God, and over time I began to experience a peace with myself and God that I had never had before..Once I realized that that peace came from a developed personal relatiopnship with God, my faith began to grow to the point that I feel no need to force my beliefs on anyone or to judge their beliefs, because I don't know what their personal relationship may be..If someone asks me how and why I am what I am I just tell them that I have a personal relationship with God..
But...how can you have a personal relationship with someone you can't see, touch, hear, smell........? I won't say I have found God unless I
1- See him...God...not some person who claims they represent God...not some picture, not some representation
2- Hear him, and know positively I heard him, and that I didn't go crazy and need Lithium.
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