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80, only speaking for myself.. But I don't think there is anything silly in believing that there is a Creator behind creation.
If I told you that a painting painted itself that would be illogical, but if I said a painter painted the painting, that makes sense, no.. Strange to me, that people who believe in a benevolent, Creator God are viewed by haters, Atheists, & cynics as the irrational ones (?) peace.
As an agnostic and anti-theist I have no problem with the concept of there possibly being some hierarchy of intelligences - god if you like. The above has little or nothing to do with some intelligence that give's much of a Moderator cut: bleep about us - why should it? Re the 'benevolent' part - it often smacks of subjective self-serving - in terms of charity - for god's sake spare the much maligned cockroach no less than the human being.
Last edited by mensaguy; 06-15-2015 at 05:14 AM..
Reason: language
Too many experiences in my life have convinced me that there's more - much, much more - to our universe and our existence than what we see and perceive on a conscious level. I'm absolutely convinced that there's something much more complex under the surface than we can see, but... what it is? I have no way of knowing. I do believe that there is a level of consciousness, of universal sentience, of which we are only dimly and occasionally aware, almost a "unified field theory" that - to the degree that we are able to catch an occasional echo of it - many of us interpret as a "god" for lack of a better term.
And that's as far as my reasoning, or my belief system, will take me. I do think that many other people sense the same thing, and are so driven by a need to understand it and explain it that they have "filled in the blanks" and created some pretty freakin' bizarre religions around it. I don't feel a need to do that. As far as I'm concerned, all I believe is that there is something else there, something pretty amazing and absolutely awesome, and hopefully someday I'll have a better understanding of it. And that's as far as I need to go with it. That's quite enough for me.
I agree pretty much with this, though for me it's based much more on reasoning things through and what makes sense to me, rather than on any personal experiences.
That's not to say that there can't be a creator, but there is no evidence that there is one. And just to predict an answer that is commonly followed by what I just said, no, there is not evidence that there isn't a god, but that's because you can't find evidence of a negative. Evidence is based on observation and observation can only be done of things that are there. I can't observe the nonexistence of unicorns, but just like with God, I can recognize the absence of evidence for their existence.
The Creator no Creator dichotomy is false. Reality EXISTS and that is undeniable. Something is the Source of that EXISTENCE . . . but it need not be its creator . . . just its Source. That is the concept of panentheism. Reality itself is the evidence for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
God is not some dude in the sky looking at your from afar. God is not an imaginary friend. God is real. Biblical Panentheism: God in all things
And God is in everything.
The universe. The Big Bang. The natural world. How do you think all this came about?
God didn't just create this stuff. God is this stuff.
And not only that.
The girl in the coffee shop. The cat crying at the door to give it food. The poor beggar that you haven't the money to help. The face of your true love.
God is not a fairy tale. Santa wasn't even a fairy tale, he was an actual person given some mythical background.
Do you understand math and science? Generally, if a rule is provable for one situation, we don't suddenly say this is true here, but totally not true elsewhere. Even with exceptions, they don't totally fly in the face of the rule. I don't know of any object in the universe that came from nowhere. Creation presupposes a creator, unless you believe in eternity. If you believe in eternity, that opens the option where an eternal being might exist.
I agree with your presentation until you try to make the Creator claim. The ONLY thing God needs to be is the Source of our reality . . . NOT the Creator. God's very existence itself is the Source for the existence of everything else . . . whether or not God willed it to be so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty
That's a different thing though. Many people do sincerely believe there is a man who lives in the sky who watches over us and answer prayers and all that. You're view on God (or at least I assume it's your view; you didn't say otherwise) is perfectly reasonable, and I don't think the OP would have an issue with it, but I don't speak for him.
I'm an atheist/agnostic (which I call it depends on the mood I'm in I think) and I think you're view on what constitutes as God is perfectly fine. I share aspects of it even though I don't call it God.
What people believe ABOUT God has no bearing on the reality or existence of God. Human beliefs are NOT the determining factor in God's existence or attributes. Our investigations of reality reveal the attributes of God . . . NOT our beliefs. You do not call it God and that is fine . . . but the awesome scope, power and ubiquity of its attributes DEFINE it as God relative to us.
Though theism has its negativities, it is a real psychological state thus positive those who adopt such belief as theism.
Anyone familiar with BIID,
Body integrity identity disorder (BIID, also referred to as amputee identity disorder) is a psychological disorder wherein sufferers feel they would be happier living as an amputee, or being "transabled." It is related to xenomelia, "the oppressive feeling that one or more limbs of one's body do not belong to one's self".
BIID is typically accompanied by the desire to amputate one or more healthy limbs to achieve that end. The cause of BIID is unknown. One theory states that the cause of BIID is a neurological failing of the brain's inner body mapping function (located in the right parietal lobe). According to this theory, the brain mapping does not incorporate the affected limb in its understanding of the body's physical form. -wiki
If is difficult to understand and it seem so stupid for a physically complete person who suffer from BIID to feel happy only after the alien part of the healthy leg is amputated and then have to rely on a crutch or wheelchair to move about.
There are many other psychological problems and disorders where their patients needs and wants are contrary to reason and rationality. The fact is that these disorders exist and humanity has not been able to find the root causes because the brain at present to too complex to be understood.
A belief in God is similar to BIID and other irrational psychological issues but because the majority of the present are suffering from it naturally due to the human DNA/RNA, it is accepted as a norm.
A need to believe in God is more fundamental and basic than BIID or any other psychological issues as it root cause is the human existential dilemma. The theistic existential drive in the majority is more stronger than the sex, hunger and other drives. This why SOME believers are willing to go to the extreme of killing those who threaten their beliefs [note Islam].
Most [not all] theists are in psychological state as if they are clinging to straws in the middle of a very big ocean for their survival and if they perceive someone is pulling any of those straws, they will feel very threaten and react accordingly [kill if necessary].
Therefore it is very critical for non-theists to understand and acknowledge the very desperate psychological states theists [they may or may not be conscious of it] are caught up with. As the same time, non-theists should also understand why they have no inclination for a God on the psychological, neuroscientific and other basis.
Humanity is evolving out of theism very slowly and in the present circumstances with that rate it is very worrying especially from the theism of Islam [which is inherently evil in part] triggering SOME of its evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils upon the infidels [Kuffar]. Theism would be no issue if it does not come with its natural evil elements. Since it is so evident theism has already manifest its benign properties and is a critical potential threat of evil to humanity, consideration must be given to wean it off and replace it on a voluntarily basis with net-positive alternative in the future [not possible at present].
The weaning of theism can only be done when humanity understand in greater depth the brain mappings involved. I am optimistic this will happen in the near future. Note the Connectome Project. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connectome
Whilst we do not have much choice but to accept [on compassionate and empathic grounds] theism for the time being, we have to be very critical of Islam [in part] regarding its inherent evil.
I believed in the Christian God for the same reason that I believed in Santa Claus: my parents told me he was real. I suspect this is true for a lot of people. But our parents eventually told us that Santa wasn't real (if we hadn't figured that out on our own by then). Not so for God.
So...why do so many adults still believe in God even though they gave up their belief in Santa as children? Isn't believing in God just as silly as believing in Santa? I realize that "God" can mean almost anything, depending on who you ask, but God is usually considered to be a person who can somehow watch over us and reward us / help us if we are "good." Why do so many adults still believe such a thing?
It is because the visible things tell us that this is an engineered world.
It is because the visible things tell us that this is an engineered world.
Yes, I get that - I don't agree that it it is a valid argument, but I get it. But is that the reason you believe in a God or a justification of that belief?
It is because the visible things tell us that this is an engineered world.
My teeth require constant cleaning in order to avoid decay from the necessary act of eating. That's not very good engineering. Predators feed themselves by eating other animals, causing them great pain and a lifetime of fear. If there's a chief engineer, he/she must be either sadistic or incompetent, or maybe both.
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