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You got a miracle? You did absolutely nothing (no medical treatment) but received a miracle and here you are 16 years later?. Good for you. I'm sincerely happy for you.
Not everyone gets that. Including people of great faith.
Sure seemed to me like Tzap wasn't claiming to have been a person of great faith at that time.
"I was basically sent home to die or face expensive medical treatments for which I had no insurance, no job, unemployed, depressed, really ready to just be done with it."
That doesn't sound like someone who was believing in miracles. Rather, s/he seems to be saying that that experience is why s/he now has faith that miracles can happen.
Sure seemed to me like Tzap wasn't claiming to have been a person of great faith at that time.
"I was basically sent home to die or face expensive medical treatments for which I had no insurance, no job, unemployed, depressed, really ready to just be done with it."
That doesn't sound like someone who was believing in miracles. Rather, s/he seems to be saying that that experience is why s/he now has faith that miracles can happen.
Could be, Pleroo. hopefully we'll get a further explanation.
if you have sincere questions, then ask in prayer, start the conversation
on the other hand, if you want to ridicule and scoff and belittle and insult and demean....internet forums are great for that
It absolutely is a sincere question:
Why won't God heal amputees? Why does God refuse to use his healing powers on this one group of people?
I was told I had less than 6 months to live due to fast growing lumps in chest; I am in the highest risk group there is for breast cancer. I was basically sent home to die or face expensive medical treatments for which I had no insurance, no job, unemployed, depressed, really ready to just be done with it. (that was 16 years ago)
Sometimes people are simply fortunate and beat the odds. Just like when you flip heads 5 times in a row--it wasn't God, it was sheer luck. Flip enough times and it will happen.
There was an accident that took place here in Oregon recently; a car was turned into an accordian as it was sandwiched by two semis, and there was an incredible photo on the newspaper's website of the trapped driver looking out the window, virtually unharmed. Naturally many of the comments were along the lines of "God was truly looking out for this guy!" and "if that's not proof that God exists, I don't know what is!" Uh, no, it's just that when you have thousands of traffic accidents each year, SOME people are going to be the lucky ones and escape serious injury. Same deal with serious disease.
Does it really make sense that God doesn't care so much about all of the OTHER multitudes of people who DIE in traffic accidents, or from cancer, each year, even when they're believers and engage in prayer? He only cares, for some reason, about the few of you who beat the odds?
Sometimes people are simply fortunate and beat the odds. Just like when you flip heads 5 times in a row--it wasn't God, it was sheer luck. Flip enough times and it will happen.
There was an accident that took place here in Oregon recently; a car was turned into an accordian as it was sandwiched by two semis, and there was an incredible photo on the newspaper's website of the trapped driver looking out the window, virtually unharmed. Naturally many of the comments were along the lines of "God was truly looking out for this guy!" and "if that's not proof that God exists, I don't know what is!" Uh, no, it's just that when you have thousands of traffic accidents each year, SOME people are going to be the lucky ones and escape serious injury. Same deal with serious disease.
Does it really make sense that God doesn't care so much about all of the OTHER multitudes of people who DIE in traffic accidents, or from cancer, each year, even when they're believers and have done a lot of praying themselves? He only cares about the few of your who beat the odds for some reason?
Exactly right.
It's the survivorship bias. The thousands who die aren't alive to tell their story of how God didn't heal them or protect them in an accident, etc.
If prayer really worked, we would see religious folks having lower accident, illness, and untimely death rates. But that's not the case. Otherwise the religious should be paying less for all types of insurance.
Sometimes people are simply fortunate and beat the odds. Just like when you flip heads 5 times in a row--it wasn't God, it was sheer luck. Flip enough times and it will happen.
There was an accident that took place here in Oregon recently; a car was turned into an accordian as it was sandwiched by two semis, and there was an incredible photo on the newspaper's website of the trapped driver looking out the window, virtually unharmed. Naturally many of the comments were along the lines of "God was truly looking out for this guy!" and "if that's not proof that God exists, I don't know what is!" Uh, no, it's just that when you have thousands of traffic accidents each year, SOME people are going to be the lucky ones and escape serious injury. Same deal with serious disease.
Does it really make sense that God doesn't care so much about all of the OTHER multitudes of people who DIE in traffic accidents, or from cancer, each year, even when they're believers and engage in prayer? He only cares, for some reason, about the few of you who beat the odds?
I'm reminded of those plane crashes where everyone survives but one person, often a child (the smaller, younger bodies of children are often more conducive to surviving such disasters). The youth is badly injured and the rest of her family is wiped out. The response?
"Boy, someone was sure looking out for her!"
As you note, it's not a miracle when in person one a hundred survives a disaster such as a crash-landing or a crash upon takeoff, at relatively slow speeds, or even a crash into terrain under somewhat controlled circumstances.
Show me an airliner that plows into the side of a mountain, is obliterated in a fireball - and everyone walks away unscathed. That would be a miracle. A badly-injured survivor or two? No.
Sure seemed to me like Tzap wasn't claiming to have been a person of great faith at that time.
"I was basically sent home to die or face expensive medical treatments for which I had no insurance, no job, unemployed, depressed, really ready to just be done with it."
That doesn't sound like someone who was believing in miracles. Rather, s/he seems to be saying that that experience is why s/he now has faith that miracles can happen.
that is correct Pleroo
I had absolutely no faith at the time, it was an absolute last resort, because there was nothing left to try
it was because of the response I got that I began to try to more consciously cultivate the relationship.
I am about as stubborn and stiff-necked as they come, and I come from a family of intellectual snobs that actively looks down on god as unnecessary and religion as a stupid superstition for ignorant simple-minded people too dumb to understand the complexity of real life and too emotionally inept to deal with death. that was my mindset at the time.
I'm reminded of those plane crashes where everyone survives but one person, often a child (the smaller, younger bodies of children are often more conducive to surviving such disasters). The youth is badly injured and the rest of her family is wiped out. The response?
"Boy, someone was sure looking out for her!"
As you note, it's not a miracle when in person one a hundred survives a disaster such as a crash-landing or a crash upon takeoff, at relatively slow speeds, or even a crash into terrain under somewhat controlled circumstances.
Show me an airliner that plows into the side of a mountain, is obliterated in a fireball - and everyone walks away unscathed. That would be a miracle. A badly-injured survivor or two? No.
Yes. Only in the realm of religion is a 99% failure rate considered an amazing success.
If God exists and can heal cancer, why not pray for God to heal every case of cancer on planet earth tonight? And then why not pray for God to eliminate the possibility of any cancer in the future?
Yes. Only in the realm of religion is a 99% failure rate considered an amazing success.
If God exists and can heal cancer, why not pray for God to heal every case of cancer on planet earth tonight? And then why not pray for God to eliminate the possibility of any cancer in the future?
Because God is a personal God and doesn't treat everyone as just faces in the crowd. Every human being is unique and on an individual path with a different life experience and relationship with God. Healing is based on individual's circumstances. Ok, say God does heal all the cancers. Then what? Another illness or pain will come along. I guess you want God to cure that too. So basically then you would be asking God to cure all negativity and basically making us immortal in our physical bodies. We are in a fallen world so life = pain. That's just the reality of this physical world.
That's not God's plan. We are to shed this physical body and receive a renewed spiritual body that will be free of cancer and pain for all eternity. That's an incredible gift in exchange for some brief physical struggling.
Because God is a personal God and doesn't treat everyone as just faces in the crowd. Every human being is unique and on an individual path with a different life experience and relationship with God. Healing is based on individual's circumstances.
When is it ever justifiable to let huge numbers of people die from starvation, disease, accidents, wars, etc if God has the power to prevent those things from happening? What do you say to the guy who had his arm blown off in a war? "Oh, sorry...God is a personal God and just decided that you are unique enough to not need my help. Your circumstances and life experiences do not really warrant god's intervention."
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Ok, say God does heal all the cancers. Then what? Another illness or pain will come along. I guess you want God to cure that too. So basically then you would be asking God to cure all negativity and basically making us immortal in our physical bodies.
Why not? Isn't that the ultimate endgame in Christianity? No more crying...no more pain? Why do we need to wait until after we die for God to make everything right? Sounds like a scam to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
We are in a fallen world so life = pain. That's just the reality of this physical world.
Again, why won't God fix the fallen world right now? Jesus's blood sacrifice already paid for the sins of the world, so why isn't "the fall" a thing of the past?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
That's not God's plan. We are to shed this physical body and receive a renewed spiritual body that will be free of cancer and pain for all eternity. That's an incredible gift in exchange for some brief physical struggling.
Well, how convenient. God can just let this world go to crap, and it's ok because there's a Pie In The Sky When You Die.
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