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In light of this topic, What if I went to a crusade or a Christian witness walked up to a and asked me if I wanted to accept Christ as my savior? What if then looked at them and said, can you give me about a year to first read the Bible from cover to cover, complete with all the necessary tools needed, do you think they would leave me alone at that point OR stress the idea that "Today is the day of salvation" and "I don't know if I won't die tonight...blah blah blah?"
Also, if I am not saved, hence imbued with the spirit of God to lead me in "all truth," can I actually understand what I am reading. Clearly Christians drop this smug hint that you are clueless about the Bible unless you are a spirit led Christian. Chicken/egg argument.
There is some "knowledge" that we need, before becoming a "Christian", that we can't get from studying or intellectual knowledge. Some of these points would be realizing that we are a sinner and feeling a need of a Savior. No matter how much we study the Bible, if we don't realize this, it won't profit us anything. So in the situation you mentioned, if someone walked up to you at a crusade and you felt needy and wanted to be saved, you might as well accept the sacrifice then and there. Why wait? At the same time, some people might have come to that point AFTER studying the Bible from cover to cover, and finally the light dawns...
Regarding what you said about the "smug hint".. God gives everyone enough knowledge that they need to move forward, no matter at what point you are. As you continue down that path, you gain more knowledge and experience.
Also, if I am not saved, hence imbued with the spirit of God to lead me in "all truth," can I actually understand what I am reading. Clearly Christians drop this smug hint that you are clueless about the Bible unless you are a spirit led Christian. Chicken/egg argument.
No you can`t.
Why is it smug..because you don`t understand it?
How about 'That's what the Bible teaches argument'?
Cuz it does, ya know?
As far as your question regarding salvation, I would tell you (in yet another one of these hypothetical situations) that God doesn't require anyone to know the bible cover to cover, that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and then I would tell you, if you want to read the bible first, go read the bible.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask them and God bless you.
Wanna coke or some coffee??
That'd pretty much sum up the conversation.
Could they perhaps, just maybe, get some choclate chip cookies with that coffee
No you can`t.
Why is it smug..because you don`t understand it?
Do you have to be a 'spirit led Muslim' to understand the Qur'an or is every nonmuslim clueless on understanding what it means? The majority of Christians have probably never read the Qur'an so they're clueless on what it says anyways. It's smug to say an theist or agnostic are clueless about the bible because for one, most atheists and agnostics believed in 'god' at some point in their life so they know the bible pretty well and most atheists and agnostics know it better than a lot of Christians.
God is spirit and the things of God are spirit. Who is an expert on spiritual things? I don`t know,do you?
if the spirit which you claim is the only reason for christians to have a faith
so why i will be condemned if the spirit didn't get to me
for responding to your question , i think that spiritual things is exist in every relegion , you can't know the truth by just depending on your emotions (spritual things)
if the spirit which you claim is the only reason for christians to have a faith
so why i will be condemned if the spirit didn't get to me
for responding to your question , i think that spiritual things is exist in every relegion , you can't know the truth by just depending on your emotions (spritual things)
Faith comes from knowing the word of God. You are so right...you can not depend on your feelings. Anyone can study the bible and come to know the will of God. All truth that is necessary to please God is contained in the scriptures.
I once started a thread on another site titled, Would you sign a contract without reading it?" I think we have all done it and many of us have been burned to varying degrees because we did not. The fine print comes back to haunt us all the time.
Well, what I have come to notice is that this is what happens with many Christians, and I would say, the overwhelming majority of them the world over. Every now and again you may hear about or read about someone who claimed they read the ENTIRE Bible before making their decision to become a Christian, but by in large, I would say these people are few and VERY far between. What you are more likely to have are people who made their decision based on a passage here and there and/or during an altar call after some real syrupy, guilt laced sermon OR one filled with promises of heaven or fear of hell. Their decision may have also been based on some message or teaching that somehow serving Jesus will make their lives better because he will "provide all my needs" or "He will give his angels charge over me" or some other scripture of promise.
So what we have are many people who sign their name to the dotted line, so to speak, knowing little of the full story. Now they are encouraged to read the contract (the Bible), BUT often starting in cute books like th Gospel of John not Exodus or Numbers, for example. If they are still young and impressionable, isolated, grew up in an area saturated with pre-conceived biases in favor of the Bible and probably not educated in higher learning dealing with subjects like philosophy, world religions and science, chances are they might just brush right past suspect passages in the Bible. On the other hand, they might not, but since the contract has already been signed, many are encouraged to persevere despite any doubts they might have. In fact, some are told that doubt is of the devil and questioning God (READ: the interpretation you have been given) is not a wise move as it opens one up to the devil who is seeking to make one stumble from the faith.
So what you now have are lots of people brimming with doubts, but afraid to admit it makes no sense, but the doubts are offset (time and time again as the conflict rages within) by the idea that God must know ad will reveal the truth in time. There are so many people who got around to reading the contract, the book that is to be their guidebook and manual for life, the Bible, and fell away from the faith. The Old Testament stories of gore and violence allegedly ordered by a god Christians call good, the off the wall stories of donkeys and snakes talking and a man holed up in an ark with ONE window with animals for over a year stretches the application of one's intelligence.
The whole thing reminds me of the girl who, to the chagrin of her parents, runs off with the questionable guy after getting into a shouting match with them where she tells them how much she loves him and they don't know how good he really is. She has told the whole world she KNOWS what she is doing. When the real deal begins to wear in, she perseveres because she now feels she has to prove to all observers she made the right decision despite all the hints in her face telling her she is making a grave mistake.
Interesting analogy here. I need to keep this one in mind. Can I borrow it?
I once started a thread on another site titled, Would you sign a contract without reading it?" I think we have all done it and many of us have been burned to varying degrees because we did not. The fine print comes back to haunt us all the time.
Well, what I have come to notice is that this is what happens with many Christians, and I would say, the overwhelming majority of them the world over. Every now and again you may hear about or read about someone who claimed they read the ENTIRE Bible before making their decision to become a Christian, but by in large, I would say these people are few and VERY far between. What you are more likely to have are people who made their decision based on a passage here and there and/or during an altar call after some real syrupy, guilt laced sermon OR one filled with promises of heaven or fear of hell. Their decision may have also been based on some message or teaching that somehow serving Jesus will make their lives better because he will "provide all my needs" or "He will give his angels charge over me" or some other scripture of promise.
So what we have are many people who sign their name to the dotted line, so to speak, knowing little of the full story. Now they are encouraged to read the contract (the Bible), BUT often starting in cute books like th Gospel of John not Exodus or Numbers, for example. If they are still young and impressionable, isolated, grew up in an area saturated with pre-conceived biases in favor of the Bible and probably not educated in higher learning dealing with subjects like philosophy, world religions and science, chances are they might just brush right past suspect passages in the Bible. On the other hand, they might not, but since the contract has already been signed, many are encouraged to persevere despite any doubts they might have. In fact, some are told that doubt is of the devil and questioning God (READ: the interpretation you have been given) is not a wise move as it opens one up to the devil who is seeking to make one stumble from the faith.
So what you now have are lots of people brimming with doubts, but afraid to admit it makes no sense, but the doubts are offset (time and time again as the conflict rages within) by the idea that God must know ad will reveal the truth in time. There are so many people who got around to reading the contract, the book that is to be their guidebook and manual for life, the Bible, and fell away from the faith. The Old Testament stories of gore and violence allegedly ordered by a god Christians call good, the off the wall stories of donkeys and snakes talking and a man holed up in an ark with ONE window with animals for over a year stretches the application of one's intelligence.
The whole thing reminds me of the girl who, to the chagrin of her parents, runs off with the questionable guy after getting into a shouting match with them where she tells them how much she loves him and they don't know how good he really is. She has told the whole world she KNOWS what she is doing. When the real deal begins to wear in, she perseveres because she now feels she has to prove to all observers she made the right decision despite all the hints in her face telling her she is making a grave mistake.
You are correct, actually.
I would suggest though, that it's more a case of being false converts, or fake Christians. I wouldn't call them Christians at all.
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