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Old 06-30-2015, 07:32 AM
 
21,978 posts, read 19,090,587 times
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if a person is not at a place in their understanding where this has a positive impact on their healing and growth, then it is not something they apply. as stated before, it is something a person uses only in their own understanding, not to label or explain someone else's life. only Miss H can speak for herself, she is the respected authority on her own healing, no one else. Mystic is the authority on his experience, not anyone else here. understanding abuse is not the same as condoning or excusing it. for healing to be most effective, all levels must be addressed: physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-30-2015 at 08:00 AM..
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Old 06-30-2015, 07:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Oh, writings, scriptures are great, don't get me wrong.
It becomes hard listening to people say things emphatically...if that is
all they are going on.
"emphatically", that's the trigger for me. I have to tell myself to focus on what they are saying and not how they are saying it. It's not about being right or wrong, it's just about describing the events around us as best we can. I must admit, I fail a lot. Maybe I am just insecure. But then people accuse me of trying to pigeon toe them when I restate the reason for their belief and keep asking why? "pigeon toe?" do they mean getting back to the "reasons" they are using to support a belief system and not "what it must mean if its different" is a bad thing?
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:06 AM
 
Location: USA
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Tzaph believes in reincarnation, Pleroo. That means that those people being abused now were abusers in a previous life, and so on. But as you correctly point out, there can be no end to the cycle.
I realize that. Reincarnation for the purpose of paying a "kharmic debt" in order to learn a lesson has never made sense to me. Still doesn't.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
All learning does NOT need to be experiential, Tzaph.
that is true. if we learn something emotionally or intellectually and are willing to apply it, we do not need to experience it physically or experientially. it is the "last resort" and for many the most effective particularly those of us who are too stubborn to change without it because of clinging to something that no longer serves us. For instance we don't leave a bad job or relationship, until we are forced to. even if we know intellectually it is bad. it is much gentler and kinder and easier all the way around to make the adjustments ourselves through free will and free choice without the negative experiences.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:15 AM
 
21,978 posts, read 19,090,587 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
But as you correctly point out, there can be no end to the cycle.
of course there is an end to the cycle, just as there is an end to the cycle of abuse in this life when a person learns healthier ways of living and doing relationships and is willing to put them into practice. that's why JC said turn the other cheek and love your enemy, to stop the cycle. as long as people stay stuck in negative behavior it continues, both in this lifetime, and in repeated incarnations. that is a pretty strong incentive to change and improve and not do unto others.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:18 AM
 
Location: USA
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Sorry Tzap, but this is a harmful belief, in my opinion. Victims of any type of abuse very often believe it is their fault and blame themselves, and it creates feelings of deep-seated worthlessness. This belief just plays right into that. That can't be healthy.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,158 posts, read 26,101,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Btw, I had a very tough childhood...I don't want to get into the terrible dynamics...
I could not forgive my Father. Went to therapy, prayed for help, tried with logic...
I didn't get too far.

THEN, one day, unexpected, 2 years ago...a dawning vision, insight came and I 'saw' everything,
in the middle of a normal day!
Who he was in a past life...who I was in that life (1840s or so)....how terrible I was...
and how he agreed to be my Father, me a girl this time...
to treat me so consistently awful from my birth til the day he died, (I was told his comments when I was born).

I saw in this insight that he was my best friend willing to do this for me, so that
I would finally learn to not be mean to people...disregard their feelings, hurt them...
so that I could finally SEE/FEEL how painful my meanness was.

Well,....quite a turn around...hating my dad...to seeing what he was willing to do for me on a soul level to teach me to stop being a certain way.
I could not progress with this character flaw in me.

Just a personal story...might give someone a diff perspective on their own life situations....or not.
Guess the criminal justice system should stop arresting abusers and instead thank them for the sacrifice and service to humanity.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:36 AM
 
21,978 posts, read 19,090,587 times
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Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
this is a harmful belief, in my opinion. Victims of any type of abuse very often believe it is their fault and blame themselves, and it creates feelings of deep-seated worthlessness. This belief just plays right into that. That can't be healthy.
which is why the only person who can pick this up and use it is the survivor herself, when she is ready and when it will have a positive effect on her healing process, not a moment before, and it is never imposed from the outside. she is the authority on her healing and on her experience, no one else in the world.

[or himself; applies to any person]

it is the same with forgiveness, it is an affront and an insult to tell someone to forgive. but in the process of healing, for a person to move forward, it is a step many choose to take for their own peace and well-being. only the person themself knows when and if and whether to take that step
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,270,108 times
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Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Guess the criminal justice system should stop arresting
abusers and instead thank them for the sacrifice and service to humanity.
Well, he did nothing at all criminal. Everything is checks and balances...it is how
the System works...each person is dancing with this sowing and reaping thing.

If one looks only at this physical world they do not see the Whole.
However, saying that ...if that is all someone wishes to see...who am I to say 'change'? Nobody,
none of my business.
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Old 06-30-2015, 10:12 AM
 
21,978 posts, read 19,090,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Guess the criminal justice system should stop arresting abusers and instead thank them for the sacrifice and service to humanity.
no one is asking for that except you in this post

in the physical world, humans are held accountable for their actions through the criminal justice system; it is part of growth and maturity to accept responsibility for the consequences of our actions

at the soul level, there are also heavenly courts administering justice; again the purpose is for us to grow and develop and accept responsibility for the consequences of our actions and (as every parent wants for their child) to make wise choices.

the "human courts" do the best they can but they are flawed. the heavenly courts are not flawed and flow from Divine Perfection. the greater our understanding of the process, the more able we are to bring peace and well being to our life and world through consciously choosing our thought, speech, and action. we measure progress in this direction by the presence of loving kindness and peace that we we express and embody.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-30-2015 at 10:35 AM..
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