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As in "Not Death Experience". This idea that almost dying tells you something of the afterlife is just another leap of faith. Death is binary - either you died or you didn't. These people did not.
"What is there in writings, speculation and opinion...that matches up
with a Direct Experience?"
Just a reminder this was the direction of the op.
A question for 'believers that speak from books only' with no direct experience
of the Divine...often spreading fear of some hell.
Having an intimate relationship with God or the Holy Spirit is possible and when people do...they
know there is only love in our Creator...there is no room for things such as
punishment, wrath or damnation.
I hope this thread doesn't get closed for getting way off topic.
This isn't about specialness or what I personally ask the Divine or a soul's choice
to be born in riches or poverty.
The benefits of being intentionally connected with the Divine
was a spin off from the topic...sorry.
My wish, following the original post, is for a person to choose to pursue and open to
a direct experience of the Divine Presence,
rather than speak from books...and then mostly speaking in fear based terms.
I'd love to have a visitation from God. If I could get an audience with God I'd like one from my guardian angel who's supposed to standing right next to me right this second. Hell, I'd even settle for a visitation from your garden-variety spook or poltergeist---anything to let me know the supernatural was real.
I can honestly say, despite all these stories you read and about from people who claim to have been visited by a deceased love one I have had hundred of relatives pass away (mother had 14 brothers and sisters--she's the sole survivor---each had numerous children and grandchildren that have passed on) and I have never had so much as a vase tip over to let me know someone was there.
Until I see something unexplainable happen I'll continue to believe it's all hogwash.
I'd love to have a visitation from God. If I could get an audience with God I'd like one from my guardian angel who's supposed to standing right next to me right this second. Hell, I'd even settle for a visitation from your garden-variety spook or poltergeist---anything to let me know the supernatural was real.
I can honestly say, despite all these stories you read and about from people who claim to have been visited by a deceased love one I have had hundred of relatives pass away (mother had 14 brothers and sisters--she's the sole survivor---each had numerous children and grandchildren that have passed on) and I have never had so much as a vase tip over to let me know someone was there.
Until I see something unexplainable happen I'll continue to believe it's all hogwash.
And o.p. addressed this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
I am sorry you have not experienced this 'Father' as real...not many have! I personally believe in "Seeing is believing". No reason to believe in something if
you haven't experienced it. I'm not here to talk to atheists, to convince them of anything, really or this would be in the Atheist Section written to them.
My intention
was to talk to those that believe in God, but speak from books, that do not actually
have that intimate relationship and inner experience of the Holy Spirit/God.
Atheists are great..it's just not my 'mission' to change them...I have SO many friends that are atheists...we all are just fine with each other the way we are.
That said....'He' is not invisible at all...this is where the Third Eye and meditation come in.
I can not escape Divine Harmony from our Source everywhere;
Celestial Music of the Spheres or the Inner Sound Current.
The Holy Spirit of God talks to me in complete sentences of profound love and insights.
(I'm not speaking of it lightly; I am in awe for days.)
And when I ask for anything...I am given it...some may call that simple Law of Attraction...
but, it's my Dad giving it to me with mucho love...that is my perception of these many gifts.
He hears my every thought...I don't even have to intentionally ask at this point.
But, again...just sayin' that's my experience. I understand it is not yours.
So, naturally, we would have diff views.
It is a perfect place to be in, btw...being tired of the nonsense.
This is where great movement and growth happens.
She's saying that if we really would love to have a "visitation from God", there's a way to open ourselves to it. Many people have said that. So, for me at least, I have to ponder why I'm not willing to put in the kind of effort that they have said was necessary for them. Or else, simply be content not to ponder it and not put the effort in. But, unless I do put in the kind of effort they talk about and still experience nothing, it seems pretty disingenuous to proclaim that what they have experienced is hogwash.
So, for me at least, I have to ponder why I'm not willing to put in the kind of effort that they have said was necessary for them. Or else, simply be content not to ponder it and not put the effort in. But, unless I do put in the kind of effort they talk about and still experience nothing, it seems pretty disingenuous to proclaim that what they have experienced is hogwash.
I think the more accurate statement is that is is highly likely to be hogwash ... or less provocatively, "without basis".
Everyone who claims a vital connection to the Divine claims it's freely available to all who will but go through the steps that the claimant has gone through. Even assuming for the sake of argument that all claimants went through the same allegedly correct steps, it ends up as circular reasoning: if you don't get the same results, you aren't doing it right.
This all sounds suspiciously like the person who, when you relate some physical ailment or injury, confidently pronounces that they had that happen to them too, and they did X, so you should do X. As If X was the true solution, the only solution, or that it would work for me simply because it works for them. If I had a nickel for every time someone projects their solutions onto me I'd be rich.
I went through one particular list of approved steps for connection to god over a period of 30 years and it did not result in either the connection or in desired life outcomes. I am willing to admit that I might have gone about it in the wrong way but I am simply not willing to jump through more hoops or commit more intellectual suicide to get to a better place. However ... understanding what I now do about human perceptual quirks and tendency to make questionable connections / draw questionable conclusions in an attempt to understand aspects of life that are essentially random and disordered, and further understanding that most humans, most of the time, never achieve a satisfying connection with the Divine, even as loosely defined by New Age thought ... it would seem a very foolish use of my time and energy to try to "seek" or "open myself" to any god(s) all over again. Especially since the most I can hope for is a compelling illusion, or perhaps still more far-fetched, to be one of those lucky few who end up so happy that life and its challenges no longer matter to them.
A god who truly wants to connect with me will be able to reach me. A god who truly wants to connect with humans generally, will reach most if not all humans by hook or by crook. It's not on me anymore. I've paid my dues. And the only result is that I have zero belief / faith anymore. So now it is not only ethically in god's court, it is necessarily so.
You're right, there is another option. The deity is unable to help. So, the deity is either powerless, malevolent, or non-existent.
another option...as an adult I have more tools, skills, abilities at my disposal than I did when I was a child; my world has grown, my perceptions have grown, my ability to make sense of the world has expanded.
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