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ITS painfully obvious that anyone who follows AND really STUDIES the bible will come to the conclusion that CHRISTIANITY IS "ANTI-FAMILY."
The two biggest influence-rs of the New Testament were the Apostle Paul and Jesus of Nazareth. When you Look at the things they had to say about "the family, being single and being married, its difficult NOT to see their plan. I find it quite fascinating that EVERY SUNDAY the churches are PACKED WITH people...who don't listen, read or study the bible they carry under their arms----but like SHEEP, follow the crowd and are continually BRAINWASHED through REPETITIVE self-hypnosis nonsensical doctrine, void of logic or Reason. In essence, they ARE blinded to the intentions of CHRISTIANITY.
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear." Mat 11,17
~Balkins
If people removed their rose tinted spectacles when reading that not so good book, they might realise that the deity depicted therein is evil!
To be fair . . . what they would realize is the BELIEFS ABOUT God of our primitive and savage ancestors are evil and wrong thanks to the revelations of Jesus the Christ.Regrettably our barbaric ancestors' beliefs in a wrathful God who required blood sacrifices corrupted Christ otherwise unambiguous demonstration of God's TRUE NATURE . . . agape love.
To be fair . . . what they would realize is the BELIEFS ABOUT God of our primitive and savage ancestors are evil and wrong thanks to the revelations of Jesus the Christ.Regrettably our barbaric ancestors' beliefs in a wrathful God who required blood sacrifices corrupted Christ otherwise unambiguous demonstration of God's TRUE NATURE . . . agape love.
Yes.
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For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.
And yet, they offered sacrifices and burnt offerings. People have been disobeying God's word since Jewish times. Now, the offerings they give are guilt offerings. The blood is about the same.
There are some religious groups that didn't have families. They tended to die out. Jesus was about his mission. Paul was about his mission. But God is not for or against family. If you can find God's love only by leaving your family, and going traveling to spread God's word, sure. If you can find God by the love of a good woman (or man), sure. If you find it by raising a family, sure.
Do it right, though.
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Genesis 2:24
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Joshua 24:15
"But if you refuse to serve the Lord, then choose today whom you will serve. Would you prefer the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates? Or will it be the gods of the Amorites in whose land you now live? But as for me and my family, we will serve the Lord."
Psalm 127:3-5
Children are a gift from the Lord; they are a reward from him. Children born to a young man are like arrows in a warrior's hands. How joyful is the man whose quiver is full of them! He will not be put to shame when he confronts his accusers at the city gates. Psalm 128:3
Your wife will be like a fruitful vine within your house; your children will be like olive shoots around your table.
Just Old Testament though. Right? No.
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Mark 3:23-25 Jesus called them over and responded with an illustration. "How can Satan cast out Satan?" he asked. "A kingdom divided by civil war will collapse. Similarly, a family splintered by feuding will fall apart." Ephesians 2:19 So now you Gentiles are no longer strangers and foreigners. You are citizens along with all of God's holy people. You are members of God's family.
Ephesians 6:4
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger by the way you treat them. Rather, bring them up with the discipline and instruction that comes from the Lord.
1 Timothy 3:2-5
So an elder must be a man whose life is above reproach. He must be faithful to his wife. He must exercise self-control, live wisely, and have a good reputation. He must enjoy having guests in his home, and he must be able to teach. He must not be a heavy drinker or be violent. He must be gentle, not quarrelsome, and not love money. He must manage his own family well, having children who respect and obey him. For if a man cannot manage his own household, how can he take care of God's church?
1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 07-04-2015 at 05:17 PM..
The concept of "family" in Bible times in the middle east has little to do with the same-labeled concept today in the West. The Bible never supports our concept of "family" except by accident. It supports Bronze Age ideas of family.
Such families generally originated in arranged marriages, at very young ages, in a highly patriarchal society. The concept of children and childhood was also vastly different. Even the concept of childhood from 500 years ago would not be recognizable to us today, much less from 2000 years ago.
Ancient "family values" were more about maintaining family and tribal inheritance and status, than about human rights. Human rights was not even a concept yet. And it was not much about personal happiness ... the right to pursuit of which is also a fairly recent invention.
So the whole idea that the Bible would support anything we'd recognize as "family values" or as "pro family" is laughable on the face of it. What actually happens is that we project ONTO scripture our own ideas of such things and then cherry pick the verses that we misinterpret in light of our own preconceptions and assume that those passages refer to our preconceptions.
And yet, they offered sacrifices and burnt offerings. People have been disobeying God's word since Jewish times. Now, the offerings they give are guilt offerings. The blood is about the same.
There are some religious groups that didn't have families. They tended to die out. Jesus was about his mission. Paul was about his mission. But God is not for or against family. If you can find God's love only by leaving your family, and going traveling to spread God's word, sure. If you can find God by the love of a good woman (or man), sure. If you find it by raising a family, sure.
The concept of "family" in Bible times in the middle east has little to do with the same-labeled concept today in the West. The Bible never supports our concept of "family" except by accident. It supports Bronze Age ideas of family.
Such families generally originated in arranged marriages, at very young ages, in a highly patriarchal society. The concept of children and childhood was also vastly different. Even the concept of childhood from 500 years ago would not be recognizable to us today, much less from 2000 years ago.
Ancient "family values" were more about maintaining family and tribal inheritance and status, than about human rights. Human rights was not even a concept yet. And it was not much about personal happiness ... the right to pursuit of which is also a fairly recent invention.
So the whole idea that the Bible would support anything we'd recognize as "family values" or as "pro family" is laughable on the face of it. What actually happens is that we project ONTO scripture our own ideas of such things and then cherry pick the verses that we misinterpret in light of our own preconceptions and assume that those passages refer to our preconceptions.
Pffft. "Family values." This in a culture that thinks family values is compatible with killing gays, or that our culture even supports family when over half of us move away from home to be "independent." Bible supported families, as is clear from the passages. Yes, maybe families more in common with hunter-gatherer families, but families regardless.
Yes...the crazy God in the sky, commanded them to make a offering to appeal for his mercy and appease his wrath (he's such a kind and caring God). This sacrifice of an innocent animal (that the sinner loved and was attached to) was an atonement for his sins. It was also an allegory to set the stage for the coming Christ...who would save all mankind from their sins (excuse me, all those who "believe). Christ would be the last sacrifice. Make sense Yet ? ? ?
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
Pffft. "Family values." This in a culture that thinks family values is compatible with killing gays, or that our culture even supports family when over half of us move away from home to be "independent." Bible supported families, as is clear from the passages. Yes, maybe families more in common with hunter-gatherer families, but families regardless.
From the KING James Bible (or any version that you care to read)....we see numerous times the anti-family values of Christ himself and the Apostle Paul. We're talking Hate your Mother, Father, Sister Brother....and WHY ? ? ? Because I (christ) am the most important thing you'll ever need or want and-----Because i told you too....that's Why!
Pffft. "Family values." This in a culture that thinks family values is compatible with killing gays, or that our culture even supports family when over half of us move away from home to be "independent." Bible supported families, as is clear from the passages. Yes, maybe families more in common with hunter-gatherer families, but families regardless.
Well here again I think a definition of terms is in order. What constitutes pro-family to you ... you cite the killing of gays which may be pro-family to a minority of knuckle-dragger types, doubtless some of the same people who see no conflict between family values and boinking your cousin. I scarcely think that constitutes the general societal attitude towards family.
My main point is that most of us in the West fantasize about family in roughly this way: we want to meet The One and have a permanent and stable pair bonding with them based on love and respect. Then we want to have children ... which we assume will be adoring and respectful and compliant and sort of a justification and crowning glory of our love relationship. We want to nurture and provide for those children so that they grow up to be well adjusted adults who look after us in our dotage.
That's the fantasy.
This is not the fantasy of a bronze age youngster though. That person was, if male, already working the fields or trades as soon as he was strong enough to do anything useful; if not she was helping keep house on the same basis. There was no concept of a carefree childhood full of play, exploration and learning. There was no systematic education, and no right to an education other than for the elites. There were no fantasies about a shining future with The One (the concept of romance came about 11 centuries later, and it was still quite different from our ideas about romance, in fact it was emotionally distant from our concept of it, being based on the ideals of chivalry and "courtly love"). Instead there was the hope that father would pick a beautiful / handsome / agreeable life partner for us from a good family. Maybe there was the hope that you'd even come to love each other ... and even what THAT means was quite different from what it is to us.
To a man of that era a wife was his main possession and status symbol and child factory and to a woman of that era a husband was her provider and protector and hopefully those services came without too many sexual demands and too much hectoring and physical violence and maybe without too many kids who were too ill-behaved.
If you want to hold that up as superior to the dystopian family values you are projecting on society from your experiences or whatever ... fine and dandy. My point though is not which is better but that they are vastly different and I guarantee you that most of the people bleating about "Biblical family values" have no clue what they are actually talking about.
Jesus provided believers the Holy Spirit ,that we would obey God in all matters be it family or not.
Marriage is not condemned ,but it is warned that it is a distraction that can conflict with one's devotion and obedience to God .
My wife challenged every decision, having no faith in the leading of the spirit, and was afraid of being lead of the Spirit (by her own words), even though by her own admission, God had fallowed through in his provision every time .
Choosing to be fearful and having no courage and faith in God, in spite of all the evidence provided ,people miss out on the blessings they could have enjoyed.
This imbalance in faith with in this relationship though, put a hinderance in many oppurtunities provided us .
And our children were affected by this conflict.
I pray for them, but as individuals they must come to their own decisions, especially in their own relationship with God.
In retrospect ,I might have done better had I not married ,and maintained my central focus on obeying God, alone.
Now that I am alone ,my children are grown and on their own, my wife is passed on, serving God is much easier.
But there are plenty of excuses to marry an lots of social pressure to marry as well especially those in ministry, As you said . being conditioned by others .
An evangelist I was associated with was under such pressure by his board, because women in the churches we would visit would make every effort to establish a personal relationship with him, and it was getting increasingly difficult to keep resisting.. So he finally did marry, and that began his decent into a more domesticated lifestyle and split loyalties.
Being young we think our selves better than the previous generation. and fall for the lie.
It is not Gods intention to use the family to build a church, nor for governments to establish edicts forcing people to become believers .
God deals with people on an individual basis, so merely being born in a Christian home does not make one a Christian.
Neither does fallowing Christian behaviors alone make one Christian .
Christ One is one in Christ and Christ in him ,by means of a relationship with God (being born again, born of the Spirit) , not academics nor family history.
To the OP,
What a man does, he will give account on that day, whether he obeyed God ,or did his own thing.
I will be giving account for my self, and you for your self, and nothing will be hidden. NOTHING WILL BE HIDDEN.
It is important that truths are put on display, but more importantly though that people choose to seek God's influence over that of men or them self, and allow Jesus Lordship ,via the Holy Spirit, to reign in them. Matthew 7;21,22,23,
There are cults that make emphasis on sex, and families and their generations and even multiple wives , this is not God's plan.
Jesus made it clear , in heaven there is no marriage nor giving in marriage, but are as the angels of God .
Marriage is not carried to heaven period.
Heaven is not a sexual play ground , and neither should earth be.
Some one that is eternal, should be focused on God, not on self.
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