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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
Reputation: 4561
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Originally Posted by Grizzly Addams
Why is it the governments business who these people want to serve?
It's a government's business because people do not have common courtesy and have prejudices. The government had not regulated it, there would still be blacks who would not be served, Chinese who would not be served, and Mexicans would be discriminated against.
On second thought some of that still exists even though it's illegal.
Which explains why the government has to be involved.
Then why did the business refuse to sell her a cake as soon as they found out some of her personal information?
There is no indication that they wouldn't sell her a cake. They just didn't want to make one for a ceremony that they are morally opposed to based on their First Amendment rights.
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Please demonstrate where Oregon law allows businesses to discriminate if they first waste the customer's time pretending that they will sell them something.
You seemed to suggest that it was discrimination against the customer. But the fact that the customer was not rejected proves that was not the case.
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Because of the sexual orientation of the customer in question. That's what people in the legal business call discrimination.
No...based on the product being requested and for the ceremony it was used in. What's sad is that your side continues to change the story in order to try to attack it.
There is no indication that they wouldn't sell her a cake. They just didn't want to make one for a ceremony that they are morally opposed to based on their First Amendment rights.
You seemed to suggest that it was discrimination against the customer. But the fact that the customer was not rejected proves that was not the case.
No...based on the product being requested and for the ceremony it was used in. What's sad is that your side continues to change the story in order to try to attack it.
Viz, how did you and the Mrs. Viz-to-be, handle the cake-thing during your ceremony?
Was the baker part of the wedding party? Did s/he bring it down the aisle as part of the procession?
Was the cake then displayed on the altar during the ceremony? Or did you and your bride take turns holding it during the exchange of vows?
When the no-doubt moving, holy ceremony was complete - did you both hold up the cake towards heaven to salute your god and ask his blessing on your marriage?
It's just that I've been married twice and have attended dozens of church weddings. And they must ALL have been doing it wrong because nary a one, nada, zip, none of 'em featured a cake at the ceremony.
Viz, how did you and the Mrs. Viz-to-be, handle the cake-thing during your ceremony?
We went together to the baker and told her what we wanted. We told her from the beginning that it was for our wedding.
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Was the baker part of the wedding party? Did s/he bring it down the aisle as part of the procession?
It was delivered to the church.
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Was the cake then displayed on the altar during the ceremony? Or did you and your bride take turns holding it during the exchange of vows?
When the no-doubt moving, holy ceremony was complete - did you both hold up the cake towards heaven to salute your god and ask his blessing on your marriage?
Of course not. But it was displayed prominently afterward at the reception. It was an integral part of the ceremony and reception.
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It's just that I've been married twice and have attended dozens of church weddings. And they must ALL have been doing it wrong because nary a one, nada, zip, none of 'em featured a cake at the ceremony.
Must be a Nebraska thing....
Or perhaps the fact that you've been married twice is an indication of how we have different views of what marriage is about. You have your views...and that's great. I've got mine. Why must you insist on trampling on others' views?
We went together to the baker and told her what we wanted. We told her from the beginning that it was for our wedding.
It was delivered to the church.
Of course not. But it was displayed prominently afterward at the reception. It was an integral part of the ceremony and reception.
Or perhaps the fact that you've been married twice is an indication of how we have different views of what marriage is about. You have your views...and that's great. I've got mine. Why must you insist on trampling on others' views?
Could you explain exactly how it was an integral part of the ceremony?
So, as we said. It had nothing to do with her personally. They didn't refuse business to her. They just said they would not be able to provide a wedding cake for a ceremony involving 2 brides.
For a reception for a wedding ceremony the baker is morally opposed to on religious grounds.
A wedding is not a religious ceremony, but it is a solemn vow within civil law. Only in someone's mind does it also become "religious." The reception is not a religious ceremony either. The baker, who apparently vetted the decision in order to get rich from their fellow fundamentalists, brought their own crime to public attention. It managed to get the new couple a nice wedding present except for the pain and shame attempted by the holier than thou bakers.
A win-win monetarily for both groups while reminding everyone that discrimination is illegal.
And your marriage of course, is now threatened how? Oh, yeah, it's not.
A wedding is not a religious ceremony, but it is a solemn vow within civil law.
You can certainly hold that view. That's fine. But Christians don't believe that.
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Only in someone's mind does it also become "religious." The reception is not a religious ceremony either. The baker, who apparently vetted the decision in order to get rich from their fellow fundamentalists, brought their own crime to public attention. It managed to get the new couple a nice wedding present except for the pain and shame attempted by the holier than thou bakers.
Again...you can certainly believe that if you want. But the baker has a First Amendment right to disagree with you.
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A win-win monetarily for both groups while reminding everyone that discrimination is illegal.
And your marriage of course, is now threatened how? Oh, yeah, it's not.
There was no discrimination against anyone except the baker. They have a right to their religion, and their First Amendment rights were trampled on, then their first Amendment rights were AGAIN trampled on by the fascist that fined them $135,000.
Could you explain exactly how it was an integral part of the ceremony?
The ceremony and reception were one big event. Without the cake, the reception would not have taken place and the day would have been affected.
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