No Dogma, Your Opinion Please

[Freak80]

Originally Posted by mordant

It's an attractive notion because it flatters us to think we can create whole realities just by thinking of them.

I have spent most of my life looking for evidence that reality would conform to my sensibilities and values and it has stubbornly refused to do so. Rather it insists that I adapt to IT. So that is where I have focused my efforts.

It's a shame that you missed the 60's. Right DewDropInn?

[DewDropInn]

Originally Posted by Freak80

It's a shame that you missed the 60's. Right DewDropInn?

A decade filled with astonishing thoughts and ideas.

Not as astonishing as someone saying the thought of people burning in hell forever gets them through the day (that was a wowser ....whoa!.. talk about someone needing a hug...).....but astonishing.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by AnywhereElse

I deal absolutely great with the idea that those that go to Hell will be there forever and, as a matter of fact, that's what gets me through the day!

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

This troubles me because of what it could mean about the state of your Spirit. The idea of punishment has never been revenge. That is a human invention. It was to teach. It identifies wrong behavior so that right behavior would be chosen. The doctrine of demons about an eternal hell does nothing except exact some incongruous infinite revenge. There is nothing more evil than that, IMO.

Originally Posted by AREQUIPA

We may disagree on a lot, though we probably agree on a lot more. But I appreciate the sentiments here.

Originally Posted by DewDropInn

Not as astonishing as someone saying the thought of people burning in hell forever gets them through the day (that was a wowser ....whoa!.. talk about someone needing a hug...).....but astonishing.

I was definitely taken aback by AnywhereElse's admission. It is bad enough to feel that way, but to be proud of it really boggles the mind.

[Freak80]

Originally Posted by DewDropInn

Not as astonishing as someone saying the thought of people burning in hell forever gets them through the day (that was a wowser ....whoa!.. talk about someone needing a hug...).....but astonishing.

That's what conservative Christianity does to a person. It's a bad drug.

Some medieval Christian theologians believed that one of the "perks" of heaven was getting to watch all of the unbelievers being tortured in hell. I think it's in the Summa Theologica, by Thomas Aquninas.

[Freak80]

Originally Posted by mordant

It's an attractive notion because it flatters us to think we can create whole realities just by thinking of them.

I have spent most of my life looking for evidence that reality would conform to my sensibilities and values and it has stubbornly refused to do so. Rather it insists that I adapt to IT. So that is where I have focused my efforts.

I would probably be happier if I believed I could create my own reality just by thinking of it. But I have an education in science and engineering. So like you, I have this crazy idea that reality is objective, and is independent of what I think. Reality is what it is, and is whatever continues to exist even when I stop believing in it. Apparently that is a difficult concept for some of the mystical/spiritual types to get. Which blows my mind.

Maybe if I were under the influence of certain substances I would understand how the mystical/spiritual types think.

[Rotagivan]

Originally Posted by Freak80

I would probably be happier if I believed I could create my own reality just by thinking of it. But I have an education in science and engineering. So like you, I have this crazy idea that reality is objective, and is independent of what I think. Reality is what it is, and is whatever continues to exist even when I stop believing in it. Apparently that is a difficult concept for some of the mystical/spiritual types to get. Which blows my mind.

Maybe if I were under the influence of certain substances I would understand how the mystical/spiritual types think.

You conflate the OP question with matters of the physical world you call reality.

The question is not about the reality of this physical universe and what you believe or don't believe in relation to it.

Your comments really have nothing to do with metaphysical concepts...

I have not meet many mystical/spiritual types who don't get the physical universe and its reality and why they consider there selves to being 'spiritual has nothing to do with denying the reality of the physical universe but more to do with connecting with the agency which they consider to being an alternate reality which is not easily sensed in relation to the physical reality yet seems to be intimately connected to it.

So, how you in your particular position deal with he concept of hell is to simply understand that there is no hell in this physical universe to which people go to for punishment, therefore there is no need to deal with the concept of hell in any concepts of alternate realities, because you can see for yourself that alternate realities do not actually exist.

Thus, bottom line - hell cannot exist.

I am interested though in what you would 'stop believing exists' if indeed it does exist, or for that matter why you would need to believe in something which exists.