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If you haven't experienced it, it may be difficult for you to imagine the uses to which prayer is put in the evangelical world quite often ... the level of narcissism and oneupmanship is incredible sometimes.
That said, there is an aspect of social connection / community and the ginning up of transcendent feelings in the mix. It is not all "god please don't let it rain on my picnic" or "help us win this game". And even when begging god to spare the life of someone you hold dear, or to end their suffering, etc., sometimes there's no real expectation of an answer, particularly among non-Charismatics; it is more putting a wish out there and asking others for solidarity and validation.
At some level, many fundamentalists know the drill: outcomes are random, but you have to appear pious and full of faith, say and do the correct things, and there's always the hope that the randomness comes out in your favor and you get props for "holding fast" and passing the test. Really, such prayer is a way of self-comforting and ritualistic talisman-wielding, sometimes mixed with a narcissistic desire for attention and sympathy.
I've experienced it, but I always tend to bristle when someone takes an extreme practice and presents it as the normative practice. Yes, fundamantal evangelical Christians sometimes to go to extremes, but they aren't representative of all Christians or of all religions.
Jesus has me pray authority of the believer though the blood of Jesus judgment were celestial beings like demons and fallen angels are ripped out of people , and then may have to ask for forgiveness for some of those people who are in sin ............. See these prayers are no way arrogant , as people do get cleaned of dark spirit and their health can be better or the ailment is reduced and some people can live longer lives Glory to God ...
Exhibit A for why pointing out that prayer is useless: When you have individuals who believe that prayer, not professional counseling or medication, can cure mental illness.
I've never understood the concept of prayer. It seems so fundamentally selfish and arrogant. Assuming there is in fact a personal god, does he issue commandments solely on the basis of popular request? Because that is what the ritual promotes. You will often hear people of faith issue a "prayer request" for a friend or family member going through a hard time. The idea is to get a chain of people praying for the person, with the presumption being that the more people who pray for a person the better the chance God will listen and act. Underlying this practice is the belief that God will answer the prayers of the sick with a lot of people vying for them while forgetting or not remembering to heal the rest. What an utterly fatuous ritual.
Believe you me they are just empty or 'fake' prayers. Why can't a person compose his or her own prayer instead of asking others to pray for them? How do you know the intentions of the person/vicar/priest praying for them? As a christian myself, I have come to conclusion that the whole of this religion is fake and rubbish. It is full of unimaginable idiocies!!
I understand. I did not take it personally. I was simply trying to get a handle on your frame of mind when you think about these people who seem to need such comfort. I tend to see comfort in this rather uncomforting existence as a positive feature however it is obtained. I get that it wouldn't comfort you. I guess I just don't understand why it would matter to you what the basis for their comfort is . . . in the absence of tangible harm to themselves or others.Do you want to eliminate the comfort they feel . . . or is there some other concern you have about it.
In my case, loving enough to point it out to them and others so they can act more rationally and not teach their children to do the same.
Do you do this with little, old grandma types? Or are you "loving" to select individuals?
Are people you don't know offering to pray for you? Because I can't say that ever met someone at, say, Target who randomly says, "I'll pray for you." Do you look ill?
I've never understood the concept of prayer. It seems so fundamentally selfish and arrogant. Assuming there is in fact a personal god, does he issue commandments solely on the basis of popular request? Because that is what the ritual promotes. You will often hear people of faith issue a "prayer request" for a friend or family member going through a hard time. The idea is to get a chain of people praying for the person, with the presumption being that the more people who pray for a person the better the chance God will listen and act. Underlying this practice is the belief that God will answer the prayers of the sick with a lot of people vying for them while forgetting or not remembering to heal the rest. What an utterly fatuous ritual.
Not only that...but he's TOLD us to come to him with our requests! Imagine that! The Creator of the universe wants US to come to HIM!
Do you do this with little, old grandma types? Or are you "loving" to select individuals?
Are people you don't know offering to pray for you? Because I can't say that ever met someone at, say, Target who randomly says, "I'll pray for you." Do you look ill?
I'll offer it to anyone of my choosing. This is not the only way to demonstrate one's love for humans, but it is one way.
I guess I just don't understand why it would matter to you what the basis for their comfort is . . . in the absence of tangible harm to themselves or others. Do you want to eliminate the comfort they feel . . . or is there some other concern you have about it.
Hey, even my late wife, a believer, realized that prayer only provided a false sense of security, and she opined that she'd take that if it's all she could get. I have zero issue with someone mindfully doing that, if it works for them and they understand it is just a mental hat trick. It's just that most people aren't mindful about it, and then it IS tangibly harmful, at least in the big picture / long run. Because people encourage folks to pray rather than get medical attention, things of that nature. It starts to effect people's judgment and motivational feedback loops. "Let go and let god" becomes a mantra for justifying passivity and abrogation of personal responsibility.
Yes, I am sowing doubt and disturbing the shakily shored up composure of some, I suppose, but I am only doing what I really wish someone had done for me before I made crucial life decisions that I have rued ever since, based on an expectation that prayer actually "changes things".
I understand. I did not take it personally. I was simply trying to get a handle on your frame of mind when you think about these people who seem to need such comfort. I tend to see comfort in this rather uncomforting existence as a positive feature however it is obtained. I get that it wouldn't comfort you. I guess I just don't understand why it would matter to you what the basis for their comfort is . . . in the absence of tangible harm to themselves or others. Do you want to eliminate the comfort they feel . . . or is there some other concern you have about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
Hey, even my late wife, a believer, realized that prayer only provided a false sense of security, and she opined that she'd take that if it's all she could get. I have zero issue with someone mindfully doing that, if it works for them and they understand it is just a mental hat trick. It's just that most people aren't mindful about it, and then it IS tangibly harmful, at least in the big picture / long run. Because people encourage folks to pray rather than get medical attention, things of that nature. It starts to effect people's judgment and motivational feedback loops. "Let go and let god" becomes a mantra for justifying passivity and abrogation of personal responsibility.
Yes, I am sowing doubt and disturbing the shakily shored up composure of some, I suppose, but I am only doing what I really wish someone had done for me before I made crucial life decisions that I have rued ever since, based on an expectation that prayer actually "changes things".
I realize that there are some who actually rely completely on prayer because they totally believe in it . . . as you did. They are in a minority, IMO. Most people use medicine and any and all other measures available to them. The unreasonable "total reliance on prayer" crowd are a minor subset of believers and can be disabused of their ridiculous expectations. But prayer generally is used in the HOPE of intervention. Why would you remove that hope just because you were disappointed in your unreasonable expectations??
God answers prayers on His time not ours, which would be our arrogance or impatience if we needed something unnecessarily. God knows what we need and will sometime answer in a surreptitious manner. We as believers need to be patient and be anxious for nothing.
God hears all prayers, it does not take a prodigious amount of people to pray to stir God's attention but it doesn't hurt for the Body of Christ to be there for one another in need
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