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There is a huge difference between spirituality and religion. Spirituality is something we feel within our hearts and comprises faith, love and devotion to God. Religion is nothing but ritual and the very people that are suppose to lead us to God and spirituality are unable to discern between the two. They are selling religion to us like how they sell washing machines, slimming fads, automobiles, houses and so on. They are targeting our minds rather than our hearts. It is little surprise then people are moving away from it all. This is the downfall and instead of saving our souls we are totally lost.
The one thing that stood out to me was "failed attempt at real Christianity". While I can't explain what it is, the "attempt", well, that isn't the way it works. Again, this speaks of religion in the head and not the heart. It doesn't matter the religion or lack of it but when it is just in your head and not your heart.............. He obviously was never a real Christian, rather passive or not at all.
Most people who turn away from Christianity is because of unforgiveness against the people there or the leaders....... Then there are people who drift away did not receive the proper foundation , and had poor convictions ......................... I`m a Christian who will endure right to the end , as I was an unbeliever most of my life a then Jesus Proved me wrong , that Jesus was indeed real and I could know Him .............., some what Like Apostle Paul who was a condemner of Christianity late in His life and then had a supernatural experience with God , as much to be proved wrong which will made convictions on Paul to endure to the end .....
When I was a believer, as a kid, I needed Jesus to come through for me as I had a problem which I certainly couldn't share with my parents. I prayed and prayed very sincerely for him to give me a sign of his presence, but none was granted. If he couldn't come through for a kid, either he didn't give a damn, or more likely is a rotted corpse somewhere in the Middle East.
When I was a believer, as a kid, I needed Jesus to come through for me as I had a problem which I certainly couldn't share with my parents. I prayed and prayed very sincerely for him to give me a sign of his presence, but none was granted. If he couldn't come through for a kid, either he didn't give a damn, or more likely is a rotted corpse somewhere in the Middle East.
This is when we realize, it just doesn't matter if Jesus / God / Holy Spirit is real and involved because we are always left with our OWN influences to make teh best of a bad situation and Jesus/God/HS are nothing more than our conscience where we dialoguw with ourself and arrive at answers we hope work yto our benefit that we are willing / able to live with..
And your proof for this is? Have you personally took a survey of the many Christian churches out there and see what ministry programs they have? Many churches do things like run food pantries. I call that helping the poor. When disasters strike like Katrina, it was the churches that were able to immediately care for and house the displaced. The government failed miserably to provide immediate assistance.
The point was not that some, even many, churches never do such things. The point is that the Bible is used as an excuse and justification for parsimonious and uncharitable treatment of the disadvantaged at the societal level. He is talking about the unholy union of Christian fundamentalism and conservative political agendas.
Most people who turn away from Christianity is because of unforgiveness against the people there or the leaders
No, it is not. It is because the beliefs of Christianity are not justified nor justifiable. Atheism is a belief position, and cannot be based on anything other than not seeing sufficient reason / justification / substantiation to afford belief to any deity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc
....... Then there are people who drift away did not receive the proper foundation , and had poor convictions .........................
Yes, definitely double down on what you're already doing that's not working.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc
I`m a Christian who will endure right to the end , as I was an unbeliever most of my life a then Jesus Proved me wrong , that Jesus was indeed real and I could know Him .............., some what Like Apostle Paul who was a condemner of Christianity late in His life and then had a supernatural experience with God , as much to be proved wrong which will made convictions on Paul to endure to the end .....
What was the basis of your unbelief? What precisely were you proved wrong about?
How about the very specific point that fundamentalist Christians, and especially,
conservative politicians that cater to them don't follow the Bible or Jesus
when it comes to helping the poor?
And instead justifying a cruel politics of exclusion and shame?
How about the very specific point that fundamentalist Christians, and especially, conservative politicians that cater to them don't follow the Bible or Jesus when it comes to helping the poor? And instead justifying a cruel politics of exclusion and shame?
Or at least the way you'd expect them to? I think that's the bigger point.
Fact is, "fundamentalists" probably do more to help the poor than you know. We're the ones that build hospitals, homeless shelters, etc.
And it's conservatives that think it's better to give a man a job than a handout that keep him fed for a lifetime instead of just till the next meal.
No, it is not. It is because the beliefs of Christianity are not justified nor justifiable. Atheism is a belief position, and cannot be based on anything other than not seeing sufficient reason / justification / substantiation to afford belief to any deity.
Yes, definitely double down on what you're already doing that's not working.
What was the basis of your unbelief? What precisely were you proved wrong about?
Your abreaction is aimed at the wrong target, mordant. You blame God for the unreasonable expectations you were taught by your fundamentalist religion. Instead of just blaming the ignorance of your fundamentalist teachers, you blame God for your dashed expectations. Clearly you have decided, as have many others, that if there is no "Santa Claus God" as advertised, then there is no God at all. Sad, actually, very sad.
How about the very specific point that fundamentalist Christians, and especially, conservative politicians that cater to them don't follow the Bible or Jesus when it comes to helping the poor? And instead justifying a cruel politics of exclusion and shame?
One one hand, this is spot-on but on the other other, it's completely off-base. How does that make sense? Well, I'm not a Christian but I have to admit, one very difficult dilemma has to be what the role of government plays and what the role of churches play. I don't know that a Christian has to necessarily believe that their government that they vote for has to be charitable. I do know that a Christian should believe and behave in their own lives that they should help the poor by running food drives, clothing drives, car washes for donations, and many of them do do those things (admittedly, many others do not).
Is it enough? From my perspective, no. On the whole, I don't think Christians practice what they preach or practice what they should be reading, but I also think that I'd have a difficult time deciding what the role of government should be and therefore what my voting pattern should look like as a Christian.
I can say this though: if a Christian believes that there should be no separation between church and state, then I would imagine that the leaders they're currently voting in are not acting in a manner consistent with their faith, because you're right, those leaders should tend to be more socialistic. In fact, they're quite the opposite so for many Christians, there is something very wrong there.
It must be very difficult for Christians who take their faith seriously and abide by the laws but still want to live in a secular world that doesn't follow those laws. Unlike vegetarians or vegans who have to stand tough and follow their at-times strict and disciplined regimes, it seems Christians (and many other followers) are often dissuaded from actually following theirs to maintain a convenient lifestyle; it's easier for them to pick and choose which laws to follow and which ones can be deemed "antiquated".
I'm often relieved by not being bound by any of it.
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If he couldn't come through for a kid, either he didn't give a damn, or more likely is a rotted corpse somewhere in the Middle East.
Good one.
