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Why do Christians sometimes make the claim that corruption on Earth has always existed, when things like politics seem less corrupted 50 years ago compared to today?
Look in America 50 years ago black were still being segregated by some state government breaking the nations laws ...couple years later and some woman were burning their bra....
Why do Christians sometimes make the claim that corruption on Earth has always existed, when things like politics seem less corrupted 50 years ago compared to today?
Because religion has always existed on earth in some way, shape or form.
What corruption would this be? It seems to me, if you can't describe what is corrupted, you are already hopeless.
There isn't any. This world is a lotus eater machine, and we stay here until we let go of our fear. The only corruption is that we like it here, and want to stay to see how things end.
Because religion has always existed on earth in some way, shape or form.
Clever answer, and I do agree to a point - but I doubt that Christians themselves would claim this!
From my experience, with Jehovah's Witnesses in particular, some Fundamentalist Christians claim the earth is corrupted by humanity's "mis-rule" in order to show that divine rule is needed eventually. JWs in particular think that God is allowing humanity to mess up the world, as some sort of lesson; God can then say "Aha, you had your chance, but now you know you need my divine rule." They assume that God would have been a theocrat from the beginning, but the first 2 humans screwed it up when they decided to "reject" the theocracy of God. And thus, thousands of years have passed as some sort of lesson in how we suck at ruling the planet. They have a strange sense that God must justify his actions to humanity through a long and torturous process, when it is actually just a form of apologetics.
So I think that this stems from various interpretations of the Primeval History in Genesis.
That's a misunderstanding. And an oversimplification.
Theocracy of Judaism was based on largely a number of informal prophets advising the people how to live. Now look at the nearby people. Pre-Islamic countries and their leaders. Romans and their leaders. These are despotisms.
This isn't so much a "hahaha you puny mortals are so cute trying to run things" as it is that we, in seeking towards more enlightened rulers, will one day invite such a bully to rule that we need to struggle and fight for years until finally we throw off chains and become as God intended. God's rule is freedom. And as long as we keep stomping on the rights of others, we aren't ready for it.
Clever answer, and I do agree to a point - but I doubt that Christians themselves would claim this!
From my experience, with Jehovah's Witnesses in particular, some Fundamentalist Christians claim the earth is corrupted by humanity's "mis-rule" in order to show that divine rule is needed eventually. JWs in particular think that God is allowing humanity to mess up the world, as some sort of lesson; God can then say "Aha, you had your chance, but now you know you need my divine rule." They assume that God would have been a theocrat from the beginning, but the first 2 humans screwed it up when they decided to "reject" the theocracy of God. And thus, thousands of years have passed as some sort of lesson in how we suck at ruling the planet. They have a strange sense that God must justify his actions to humanity through a long and torturous process, when it is actually just a form of apologetics.
So I think that this stems from various interpretations of the Primeval History in Genesis.
To take it further, for many Christians, it is simply an extension of Paul's theology in Romans. Paul is pretty clear that the Law was never intended to reconcile God and man, but to demonstrate how wicked and flawed mankind was. From Moses to Jesus was to be a multi-millennial object lesson in the futility of pleasing God.
If you combine that mind set with, the Fall-Restoration trope that you referred to in Genesis, it is pretty easy to see how they would come to that sort of conclusion.
And to answer the original poster, it isn't just religious people. Humanity has a long a glorious history of complaining vociferously that "kids these days" are ruining society. People were complaining that society was going to Hell in a handbasket long before the idea of Hell existed, and probably before handbaskets!
To take it further, for many Christians, it is simply an extension of Paul's theology in Romans. Paul is pretty clear that the Law was never intended to reconcile God and man, but to demonstrate how wicked and flawed mankind was. From Moses to Jesus was to be a multi-millennial object lesson in the futility of pleasing God.
If you combine that mind set with, the Fall-Restoration trope that you referred to in Genesis, it is pretty easy to see how they would come to that sort of conclusion.
Very nice post! I had completely forgotten about that.
"a multi-millennial object lesson in the futility of pleasing God" is a perfect way of putting it heh heh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo
And to answer the original poster, it isn't just religious people. Humanity has a long a glorious history of complaining vociferously that "kids these days" are ruining society. People were complaining that society was going to Hell in a handbasket long before the idea of Hell existed, and probably before handbaskets!
-NoCapo
That is certainly the case.
One of my favorite examples is from The Instructions of Amenemope, from the New Kingdom of Egypt:
Do not revile one older than you,
He seen Re before you;
Let [him] not report you to the Aten at his rising,
Saying: "A youth has reviled an old man."
Very painful before Pre
Is a youth who reviles an elder.
(IA 27:16-21, M. Lichtheim - Ancient Egyptian Literature Vol. II - The New Kingdom, University of California Press, Rev. 2006)
Those darn whipper-snappers! The Biblical book of Proverbs and Qoheleth owes much to this Egyptian work, as part of an ongoing Wisdom Literature that attempted to instill values into the reprobate youth of the time.
This Christian understands that man was made for fellowship with God with a free will and a living soul.
But a free will with out a contrasting POV there is no choice.
God knew what Satan would do in tempting Eve and then Adam through her ,and the temptation was not the fruit but the opportunity to acquire knowledge circumventing God. Much like man does today and has always done since Adam.
We build robots to serve us but they serve us to our specifications and do not have choice in loyalty .
That would be an aspect of AI that might tend to defy having the need for a robot that might turn on you, or choose independence.
The earth was Satan's domain after being expelled from heaven in a war, but earth was not Satan's property, It was merely a neutral zone.
God made man and gave him the planet He had fully restored .
So before man was here Satan was already here ,but he never had ownership .
God knows there are only a fraction of man that are harvestable through this process ,only a few will choose to be taught of God and prefer His influence and fellowship .
Jesus provides something man cannot produce on his own and that is a healing of the soul God only can perform.
And with that God provides the Holy Spirit to teach the believer and fallow God in a personal relationship.
It is still a matter of choice to seek after and wait on God but He does come through all the time in His good time.
Satan still will test a man till the day a man dies , it is a necessary part of the process, for considering some one to live in Heaven ,an environment others dwell with out having to deal with rebellion and anger issues an the disruption Satan had attempted to create, before being cast out .
God's selection process is not in a hurry , however man's limited existence on this planet is being supported over time.
One day even the aspect of time, will no longer be applicable.
What ever God grants in existence for eternity is His to choose ,and I hope to be worthy of that choice and do every thing in my capacity and the capacity He grant's me, to that end.
This Christian understands that man was made for fellowship with God with a free will and a living soul.
But a free will with out a contrasting POV there is no choice.
God knew what Satan would do in tempting Eve and then Adam through her ,and the temptation was not the fruit but the opportunity to acquire knowledge circumventing God. Much like man does today and has always done since Adam.
We build robots to serve us but they serve us to our specifications and do not have choice in loyalty .
That would be an aspect of AI that might tend to defy having the need for a robot that might turn on you, or choose independence.
The earth was Satan's domain after being expelled from heaven in a war, but earth was not Satan's property, It was merely a neutral zone.
God made man and gave him the planet He had fully restored .
So before man was here Satan was already here ,but he never had ownership .
God knows there are only a fraction of man that are harvestable through this process ,only a few will choose to be taught of God and prefer His influence and fellowship .
Jesus provides something man cannot produce on his own and that is a healing of the soul God only can perform.
And with that God provides the Holy Spirit to teach the believer and fallow God in a personal relationship.
It is still a matter of choice to seek after and wait on God but He does come through all the time in His good time.
Satan still will test a man till the day a man dies , it is a necessary part of the process, for considering some one to live in Heaven ,an environment others dwell with out having to deal with rebellion and anger issues an the disruption Satan had attempted to create, before being cast out .
God's selection process is not in a hurry , however man's limited existence on this planet is being supported over time.
One day even the aspect of time, will no longer be applicable. What ever God grants in existence for eternity is His to choose ,and I hope to be worthy of that choice and do every thing in my capacity and the capacity He grant's me, to that end.
Good luck. By the way, do you know precisely what it takes to be worthy? I'd hate to see you miss out on a technicality.
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