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Sounds like you want separation of church and state to be a one way street. If the government gets in the business of the church's business then we should have the full right to get in the government's business starting with churches fully be allowed to endorse political candidates.
As much as I absolutely hate to agree with this, I can't help but say that I think you're right, jeff. In fact, part of the deal with non-profit churches (or as I call them, non-prophets ) is that if they begin to state to their congregation explicitly who to vote for, then they are at risk of losing their tax-exempt status. Every election, it's always interesting to hear sound bytes of pastors weaseling their way around this with creative language.
Once we accept churches as obligatory tax-payers then they immediately begin to gain the right to have a say in politics - or so goes the most likely interpretation of the law. Thanks to rulings like Citizens United, I fail to see how a corporation could be viewed as an individual and a church could not.
To make matters worse, you'd have organizations like the Catholic Church with billions and billions of dollars to back candidates for their agenda. And, in a neat twist of fate, two of the most corrupt groups of people on the planet: church leaders and politicians, would dance down the aisle arm in arm.
As bitter a pill it is for me to swallow, I reluctantly think churches should stay tax-free. And believe me, that's a bitter pill to swallow.
As bitter a pill it is for me to swallow, I reluctantly think churches should stay tax-free. And believe me, that's a bitter pill to swallow.
Sometimes you have to be careful what you ask for, it's true.
I believe that a portion of most church's activities don't really qualify as tax-exempt, but for reasons such as the one you point out here, I am loathe to suggest wading in with rules and regulations, trying to allow or disallow tax exemptions even based on (often highly deniable) activity. For example I don't think a worship service or a building primarily used for worship should be tax exempt, but that would likely allow it to become a place to extend political influence openly rather than covertly.
In an ideal world I'd want a church (or any organization) to be granted tax exemption for charitable work and the like, but not for proselytizing and pomp and circumstance. But I can't see a way to make that happen that wouldn't cause more problems than it solves.
That said, when you have something really egregiously using subterfuge to feather the nest of its elite, like Scientology, and doing documented harm to people's lives, a line needs to be drawn in the sand. They should never have been defined as a church to start with.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Why are you so angry at religion?
Who's angry?
Astounded at the imaginations of people and that they actually believe and some of the woo and let it affect how they live their lives is more like it. And that is not just Christians, that includes Muslims, Orthodox Jews, Sihks, Hindus, and a plethora of other religions.
Most of us stopped believing in things like the leprechauns, trolls under bridges, fairy godmothers, and other childlike fantasies.
Atheists just go one step further, and stop believing all fantasies.
Astounded at the imaginations of people and that they actually believe and some of the woo and let it affect how they live their lives is more like it. And that is not just Christians, that includes Muslims, Orthodox Jews, Sihks, Hindus, and a plethora of other religions.
Most of us stopped believing in things like the leprechauns, trolls under bridges, fairy godmothers, and other childlike fantasies.
It's amazing how many times atheists seem to mention magic and stuff like that. Why are you guys so fascinated with it?
Quote:
Atheists just go one step further, and stop believing all fantasies.
Based on your posts against it, it sure seems like you have quite the grudge.
I'm truly sorry if someone religious has hurt you in some way. Next time you get through Nebraska, I'd love to chat a bit and show you that Christians don't bite.
When I was in the hospital for three and a half months, and my ex Fundy wife showed up with her pastor who wanted to pray for me, I was pretty pissed off.
I don't need somebody invoking some sort of incantations like an African witch doctor to make me feel better. That's what doctors are for, they did a wonderful job.
No woo needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Why are you so angry at religion?
I didn't read any anger at religion into his post. I read it to say that he was angry with his ex-wife (who knew he was not religious) for bringing her pastor to his hospital room where he was [essentially] a captive audience for the pastor's prayers. It may have made the ex-wife feel better, but it didn't help the patient's blood pressure at all. Knowing his views, I think it was quite inconsiderate of her to bring the pastor to his room.
I know plenty of Christians who "don't bite". They are nice enough people who happen to be religious. However, the fact that they "don't bite" doesn't suddenly convince me that their beliefs are valid or true.
i know plenty of christians who "don't bite". They are nice enough people who happen to be religious. However, the fact that they "don't bite" doesn't suddenly convince me that their beliefs are valid or true.
If churches lose their tax exempt status they will be allowed to preach politics. They will start PACS.
I don't like the way it is but I think any alternative would be worse.
I know many churches that do much for their communities. I also know of churches that do little. For that I blame the membership more that the religion or pastor.
When I was in the hospital for three and a half months, and my ex Fundy wife showed up with her pastor who wanted to pray for me, I was pretty pissed off.
I don't need somebody invoking some sort of incantations like an African witch doctor to make me feel better. That's what doctors are for, they did a wonderful job.
No woo needed.
Doctors fail people every day and then what does a person do? I am confident that most people when the chips are down would welcome someone praying for them. The only thing the hardcore atheist can do is offer positive thoughts as if positive thoughts could translate into positive healing energy.
If churches lose their tax exempt status they will be allowed to preach politics. They will start PACS.
I don't like the way it is but I think any alternative would be worse.
I know many churches that do much for their communities. I also know of churches that do little. For that I blame the membership more that the religion or pastor.
First they will have to keep their doors open. The Mormon Church spent $$$$$ to defeat Prop 8. Churches demonize politicians all of the time. We will know them by their PACS.
Tax every church in the nation. I want property tax relief. It would give me greater disposable income to put into my community. I think it would be awesome.
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) is that if they begin to state to their congregation explicitly who to vote for, then they are at risk of losing their tax-exempt status. Every election, it's always interesting to hear sound bytes of pastors weaseling their way around this with creative language.
