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we are cheapskates. Muslims do not tithe. We have no ordained clergy and any Muslim can and at varuious times will be the Imama. Very few Imam's outside the Mideast get paid and usually built and owns the Mosque and has to pay all the bills related to it. Any Muslim can build a Mosque if he feels he can afford to. No central agency authorizes the building of Mosques.
There is no Islamic clerical hierarchy that makes money by recruiting new Muslims. We have no central religious leaders and actually have no real need for any form of trained clerics as many Muslims do their prayers at home. Their is no requirement for us to enter a Mosque, although we do believe there are benefits in doing so.
I would ask for more reliable statistics than just your conjectures. Muslims don't tithe because they Zakat - usually 2.5% of wealth earned above the minimum. A tiny minority are wholly voluntary and even less do not abuse people's psychology to pressure them. Like any Religion.
Religious schools make most of the money with pretensions to "civilize the children" more than secular schools. But in reality they are just creating further religious divides for monetary gain and out of fear that "learning something else" might deconvert smart people.
Further than enforcing a Zakat... Muslims donate, and ask for donations, which they would say depends on how much you submit to Allah. Just like Christian Protestant Denominations. Then they take over the government and collect taxes to benefit the religion.
Some Muslims do ordain clergy, but in general they act like a Christian Protestant denomination... allowing free-will leading by founders and owners and who ever else they allow.
Shia Islam does have a hierarchy of "scholastic" authority in from various "graduations" in Muslim schools.
And most Sunnis follow the idea that "masters" and "elders" who faithfully studied in payed-Muslim schools should lead the religious congregations.
Pretty much everywhere outside the Mideast, plural religious buildings and property are tax-excempt. If the Imam doesn't use Zakat for his own wages, then he is a rich man who wanted tax-free property and a podium to control society from. Any rich Muslim can build a mosque.
I've never seen evidence that Muslims collect money to send to Islamic head-quaters, except by restricting diet and clothing and thus business, and by encouraging the Hajj to Mecca and other places. But both of these do not centralize authority and money-collecting like Roman Catholicism often does (claiming faith tribute or membership fees or investment returns or whatever else).
There is no requirement to Church in either Catholicism or Protestantism, but they both also prescribe "benefits" to doing so. I believe Bars and Nightclubs follow the same capitalism upon people's needs to socialize and segregate.
While that is true, I think even a secular nation will reflect the religious views of the majority through their laws.
A person's actual religion is the way they act, think and talk not what "Club" they belong to or what religious title they wear or don't wear.
Except a Secular Country would have protections for the equality of all religious groups.
Which religion is just good? Which religions are just Cronyism, Favoritism, Fascism, etc?
I would ask for more reliable statistics than just your conjectures. Muslims don't tithe because they Zakat - usually 2.5% of wealth earned above the minimum. A tiny minority are wholly voluntary and even less do not abuse people's psychology to pressure them. Like any Religion.
Religious schools make most of the money with pretensions to "civilize the children" more than secular schools. But in reality they are just creating further religious divides for monetary gain and out of fear that "learning something else" might deconvert smart people.
Further than enforcing a Zakat... Muslims donate, and ask for donations, which they would say depends on how much you submit to Allah. Just like Christian Protestant Denominations. Then they take over the government and collect taxes to benefit the religion.
Some Muslims do ordain clergy, but in general they act like a Christian Protestant denomination... allowing free-will leading by founders and owners and who ever else they allow.
Shia Islam does have a hierarchy of "scholastic" authority in from various "graduations" in Muslim schools.
And most Sunnis follow the idea that "masters" and "elders" who faithfully studied in payed-Muslim schools should lead the religious congregations.
Pretty much everywhere outside the Mideast, plural religious buildings and property are tax-excempt. If the Imam doesn't use Zakat for his own wages, then he is a rich man who wanted tax-free property and a podium to control society from. Any rich Muslim can build a mosque.
I've never seen evidence that Muslims collect money to send to Islamic head-quaters, except by restricting diet and clothing and thus business, and by encouraging the Hajj to Mecca and other places. But both of these do not centralize authority and money-collecting like Roman Catholicism often does (claiming faith tribute or membership fees or investment returns or whatever else).
There is no requirement to Church in either Catholicism or Protestantism, but they both also prescribe "benefits" to doing so. I believe Bars and Nightclubs follow the same capitalism upon people's needs to socialize and segregate.
Each Muslim can only speak for himself. Yes we are obligated to pay Zakat. That can be to any charityof our choosing. Although we should not tell who we give Zakat to or the amount. I will say my Zakat goes to local charities and stays in North and South Dakota.
The only Muslims I am aware of that have an ordained Ministry are the NOI.Best known for their prison ministry.
While they call them Self Muslims they have no actual resemblance to what Sunni and Shi'a consider Muslims. While they do use the Qur'an they do have a central religious leader, they do have ordained clergy, they do not believe Muhammad(saws) is the final Prophet, they have a very different Shahadah etc. Although NOI sometimes do convert to Islam. Best known examples are Muhammad Ali and Malcolm X
As for clothing as long as it meets sunnah standards it can be local fashion Some styles that generally are halal: Spanish, Hispanic, Native American, Traditional Polish, Lithuanian, Ukraine, Lettish, Jndian, Chinese, and many others.
There is no monopoly on Halal foods. Nearly all food that does not contains intoxicants or insects are halal by default. Meat is the only issue however halal meat need not be prepared by a Muslim. Jews, Sabeeans and Christians can also prepare Halal meat. It is also permissable for Muslims to eat Kosher meat Kosher for the most part is Halal for us. While numerous halal certification agencies have sprung up there are none the are the "Official" Halal certification agency. None is needed. As even if something is stamped halal we as individuals are still responsible to verify it is halal. The Halal stamp is not really helping Muslims and is no guarantee the meat is still halal after it reaches the market. Many products marked halal in the chain grocery stores are not halal even though they may have been when produced.There are a number of factors that can render a halal product haram before it reaches the consumer.
Islam is apart from the only God there is or ever was- Jesus Christ. Because muslims have largely shut themselves off from His influence, there is only one other source- satan. Most people don't ever give satan a second thought, and that is EXACTLY what he wants! Islam is a faith based largely on keeping the masses ignorant and fearful. Their "god" is not loving, only demanding and judgemental. I'm sure the majority of muslims are not fanatical terrorists. However, the leaders seem to often be fanatics and full of hatred- and they are the ones "calling the shots.
Islam is apart from the only God there is or ever was- Jesus Christ. Because muslims have largely shut themselves off from His influence, there is only one other source- satan. Most people don't ever give satan a second thought, and that is EXACTLY what he wants! Islam is a faith based largely on keeping the masses ignorant and fearful. Their "god" is not loving, only demanding and judgemental. I'm sure the majority of muslims are not fanatical terrorists. However, the leaders seem to often be fanatics and full of hatred- and they are the ones "calling the shots.
However most of us have no religious leaders. Many Muslims will never enter a Mosque in their entire life. Except for in the Arab Nations (Which contain only about 10 to 15% of the world's Muslims) there are virtually no Islamic schools, Very few people willing to be Imams etc.
As for non-Muslims in the non-Islamic Nations using the USA for example. We have about 2,300 Mosques for about 3,000,000,000 Muslims. Only about 100 can hold over 100 people about 10 can hold over 1,000 people. There are less than 700 Imams nearly all unpaid
Quote:
Imam Shortage Crimps U.S. Mosques
Muslim Population is Rising, but Number of Religious Leaders Doesn't Keep Pace
By Tamara Audi
Aug. 14, 2014 5:30 p.m. ET
Even as the Muslim population in the U.S. multiplies, the number of religious leaders, known as imams, lags behind. Imam Shortage Crimps U.S. Mosques - WSJ
As Islam Grows, U.S. Imams In Short Supply
February 10, 2013 3:29 PM ET
Islam in America is growing exponentially. From 2000 to 2010, the number of mosques in the United States jumped 74 percent.
Today, there are more than 2,100 American mosques but they have a challenge: There aren't enough imams, or spiritual leaders, to go around.
The Mid-Cities Mosque in Colleyville, Texas, has two modest minarets that distinguish it as a sacred building here in this sedate suburb between Fort Worth and Dallas. It's trimmed in green lights — the color of Islam. A Dallas Muslim Yellow Pages sits in a rack outside the doors.
Inside, maghrib prayers, after sunset, are commencing. A husky young imam dressed in a sand-colored tunic closes his eyes and leans into a microphone. A dozen men stand barefoot, elbow-to-elbow on a green carpet, in quietude.
The 200 mostly Pakistani-American members of this small Texas mosque are lucky to have a full-time, American-born imam. There's an acute imam shortage in America, the result of supply, and demand, says Nouman Ali Khan.
"I've had the opportunity to travel to maybe 150 mosques across the country. And the vast majority of them, actually, did not have a full-time imam," says Ali Khan, who heads Bayyinah, an Arabic-language institute in Dallas that educates future imams. "The ones that did are very happy to have them and the ones that didn't are constantly asking me when I go for a seminar, 'Hey, so you know anybody?'"
U.S. mosques struggle with shortage of imams
Tracy Simmons | January 14, 2013 | 7 Comments
SPOKANE, Wash. (RNS) The Spokane Islamic Center wants something mosques all across the country are seeking and can’t seem to find: an educated, bilingual, experienced imam who understands American culture. So far, the search has taken 18 months. By Tracy Simmons U.S. mosques struggle with shortage of imams - Religion News Service
Location: NYC based - Used to Live in Philly - Transplant from Miami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaConservative
Can you quote the verse in the Quran that tells Muslims to kill unbelievers? Quoting verses out of context is stupid.
You have to also understand the historical/societal context in which the Quran was revealed.
I grew up partially in Indonesia (in a Christian family), in which 90% of the population is Muslim. Adzan was played from mosque using speakers 5 times a day so that everybody in their homes could hear. I could even recite them as a child.
Anyway back to the topic.
It is indeed said in Al-Quran that they have to slay the infidels.
One of these commands is from 47:4.
In fact 5:54 says that Muslims should hate Jews and Christians.
It was very hard to build a church in Indonesia (obstructed constantly by the government, which are mostly Muslim). Christians are persecuted.
In fact in 1998, there was an incident in which the native, which are mostly Muslims, killed, ransacked the house and raped the women in front of their families of Chinese descendant who are mostly Christians, while shouting "Allahu Akbar".
That was the beginning of migrations of Chinese ethnics from INdonesia to neighboring countries of OZ, NZ and even the US.
This is also the very same reason why I was laughing at Kim Davis when she said she was "persecuted" while she was actually breaking the law. She should move to Indonesia. Than only, she could claim that she is persecuted as a Christian.
And this is the same reason that I become more less agnostic now. When I was a child, I saw how Mulsim persecuted others. Now in the US, I see how Christians persecute others.
Last edited by asiandudeyo; 09-25-2015 at 09:40 AM..
I grew up partially in Indonesia (in a Christian family), in which 90% of the population is Muslim. Adzan was played from mosque using speakers 5 times a day so that everybody in their homes could hear. I could even recite them as a child.
Anyway back to the topic.
It is indeed said in Al-Quran that they have to slay the infidels.
One of these commands is from 47:4.
In fact 5:54 says that Muslims should hate Jews and Christians.
It was very hard to build a church in Indonesia (obstructed constantly by the government, which are mostly Muslim). Christians are persecuted.
In fact in 1998, there was an incident in which the native, which are mostly Muslims, killed, ransacked the house and raped the women in front of their families of Chinese descendant who are mostly Christians, while shouting "Allahu Akbar".
That was the beginning of migrations of Chinese ethnics from INdonesia to neighboring countries of OZ, NZ and even the US.
This is also the very same reason why I was laughing at Kim Davis when she said she was "persecuted" while she was actually breaking the law. She should move to Indonesia. Than only, she could claim that she is persecuted as a Christian.
And this is the same reason that I become more less agnostic now. When I was a child, I saw how Mulsim persecuted others. Now in the US, I see how Christians persecute others.
A common error is reading out of context and assuming a single line is a command
Quote:
Anyway back to the topic.
It is indeed said in Al-Quran that they have to slay the infidels.
One of these commands is from 47:4.
In fact 5:54 says that Muslims should hate Jews and Christians.
47:4
Reading the first 10 lines of surah 47
It should be obvious this is not commanding wanton harming of anyone.
Those who disbelieve and turn (men) from the way of Allah, He rendereth their actions vain. - 47:1 (Picktall)
And those who believe and do good works and believe in that which is revealed unto Muhammad--and it is the truth from their Lord--He riddeth them of their ill deeds and improveth their state. - 47:2 (Picktall)
That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood and because those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Thus Allah coineth their similitudes for mankind. - 47:3 (Picktall)
Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain. - 47:4 (Picktall)
He will guide them and improve their state, - 47:5 (Picktall)
And bring them in unto the Garden which He hath made known to them. - 47:6 (Picktall)
O ye who believe! If ye help Allah, He will help you and will make your foothold firm. - 47:7 (Picktall)
And those who disbelieve, perdition is for them, and He will make their actions vain. - 47:8 (Picktall)
That is because they are averse to that which Allah hath revealed, therefor maketh He their action fruitless. - 47:9 (Picktall)
Have they not travelled in the land to see the nature of the consequence for those who were before them? Allah wiped them out. And for the disbelievers there will be the like thereof. - 47:10 (Picktall)
5:54 also has to be read in context, makes more sense when you read a paragraph It has to be understood there are 2 Arabic words that translate into friend Siddiq which is the same as the English word friend and Wali whish is much deeper, it is a friend that you follow as a mentor and acts as your guardian. In Surah 5 the word wali is used.
O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. - 5:51 (Picktall)
And thou seest those in whose heart is a disease race toward them, saying: We fear lest a change of fortune befall us. And it may happen that Allah will vouchsafe (unto thee) the victory, or a commandment from His presence. Then will they repent of their secret thoughts. - 5:52 (Picktall)
Then will the believers say (unto the people of the Scripture): Are these they who swore by Allah their most binding oaths that they were surely with you? Their works have failed, and they have become the losers. - 5:53 (Picktall)
O ye who believe! Whoso of you becometh a renegade from his religion, (know that in his stead) Allah will bring a people whom He loveth and who love Him, humble toward believers, stern toward disbelievers, striving in the way of Allah and fearing not the blame of any blamer. Such is the grace of Allah which He giveth unto whom He will. Allah is All Embracing, All Knowing. - 5:54 (Picktall)
Your friend can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poor due, and bow down (in prayer). - 5:55 (Picktall)
And whoso taketh Allah and His messenger and those who believe for friend (will know that), lo! the party of Allah, they are the victorious. - 5:56 (Picktall)
O ye who believe! Choose not for friends such of those who received the Scripture before you, and of the disbelievers, as make a jest and sport of your religion. But keep your duty to Allah if ye are true believers. - 5:57 (Picktall)
And when ye call to prayer they take it for a jest and sport. That is because they are a folk who understand not. - 5:58 (Picktall)
Say: O, People of the Scripture! Do ye blame us for aught else than that we believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed aforetime, and because most of you are evil-livers? - 5:59 (Picktall)
I'm guessing you didn't read the verses that said to kill nonbelievers, and unfriend Christians and Jews.
I didn't know they had Facebook back in the 7th century.
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