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I'll stand by my experience with and relationship with God in my life. You can believe whatever you wish.
Of course. Whatever else could we agree to do? However the point and purpose of the thread is to produce an argument, case and, if we have any, evidence. I produced what I am pleased to think of as evidence based on redaction criticism. You have appealed to the 'Jesus has made such a difference to my life' evangelical package.
I would argue that I have have good crap and bad, and could easily present the good as evidence of some god or other. But, since I have a relationship with none of them, I am not being deluded into thinking so, nor of course using it as personal testimony designed to delude others into believing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85
You cannot speak to my experience and relationship with God, you can only speak for yourself.
This is a familiar apologetics argument. Essentially it is saying that while Mordant's experience as a Christian wasn't real enough to prevemt him from losing faith, yours is.
It is a familiar and indeed very common ploy called 'No Real Christian'.
I get it.
For the record, I am an ex-Christian, so we won't see eye to eye on many things.
As I read your posts, I suspect that it's not Christian dogma that was confirmed for you (that's obviously something that's an intellectual "belief"), but rather God's love for you. So, I'm curious to see if that is, indeed, the case. I'm completely uninterested in dogma and find some of the dogma of Christianity particularly damaging. But, I'm always curious when people say they have experienced God at a "heart" level. I'm personally unsure if it is actually God one is experiencing, or their own psychological arsenal, or something else but, to me, what one labels it is less important than the fact that one has experienced it. And I'm always interested in hearing different perspectives on what people's experiences of it have been.
Different approaches, totally While I have some interest in the mechanics of faith - indeed it is necessary to understand it. It is the non -subjective claims of religions that really interest me.
I don't mind answering, but I'd like to know why you are so curious? Is it due to sincere interest, or looking for a way to poke holes in my Faith? Sorry if I read you wrong, but many on this forum love to make fun of Christians, and I have learned to trust God and not to trust man.
I've always wondered about this ... how does one trust God?
Oh, and most of us aren't making fun of Christians though we might make fun of some of Christianity's beliefs and tradition.
They're two separate things even though I know many believers internalize their religion to such an extent that their beliefs and their gods become interchangeable with the person.
How can one trust God unless he is actively telling you what to do?
Different approaches, totally While I have some interest in the mechanics of faith - indeed it is necessary to understand it. It is the non -subjective claims of religions that really interest me.
I was fairly confident that you and I approach things with very different mindsets. That's fine, but I suppose it does make dialog between us more tricky.
I tend to be rather pragmatic about the subject of spirituality. I'm not at all interested in religion; once burned, twice shy. My interest is: does your world view, your beliefs and/or your experiences add to you and your life, and those around you in a positive way? How?
Different approaches, totally While I have some interest in the mechanics of faith - indeed it is necessary to understand it. It is the non -subjective claims of religions that really interest me.
Thinking about this more, part of the reason that I am not interested in the "non-subjective" claims of religion is because my experience as a life-long Christian of a fundamentalist persuasion, was a hyper-focus (and death-grip) on the supposedly biblical religious dogma. It was drilled into my brain that the right beliefs were vital, and must be defended at all costs. Looking back, I realize it was soul-deadening. I've no interest in traveling that path again, regardless of whether the path is theistic, deistic, atheistic, or any other -istic. When it comes to my former beliefs that have shown themselves to be harmful, however, I don't have any qualms about confronting them on that basis.
I've always wondered about this ... how does one trust God?
Oh, and most of us aren't making fun of Christians though we might make fun of some of Christianity's beliefs and tradition.
They're two separate things even though I know many believers internalize their religion to such an extent that their beliefs and their gods become interchangeable with the person.
How can one trust God unless he is actively telling you what to do?
I don't know about anyone else. To me, the only sentient God I could trust would be a God who is love. I would think that, in any circumstance I found myself, God's spirit of love would be available from which to draw strength, courage, and the inner prompting to keep the best interests of everyone involved in mind. I tend to believe that all people have that spirit within them and, that being the case, it's not necessary to believe that there is a sentient Source of that spirit (beyond self) in order to access it. If there is a sentient Source, though, being consciously aware of it and "in relationship" with it would, seemingly, be quite helpful and rewarding.
But aren't ALL evangelicals experiencing eh SAME events thoughts and mind set?
Six evangelicals are locked in a room. One says THE LORD WILL PROVIDE and ALL agree.
Another says HE WILL BEAR OUR BURDENS and ALL agree
Another speaks and says I SHALL BE CONTENT IN ALL THINGS and ALL agree.
This goes on for about an hour, one slinging scripture then ALL agreeing..
Finally, there is a voice in the wilderness (the other side of the door) speaking--
HE has set the captives FREE and the door hinges squeak--and the evangelicals all look at each other and AGREE they must work harder to reach the top of the cell where there is light because nothing is ever easy and the open door is a test from God to see if they will follow the devil or if they will strive for the light--
This being a representation of how the evangelical mind works 99% of the time.
I cannot compete with your great intellect, so I'll stick to my beliefs which have proven always true.
I cannot compete with your great intellect, so I'll stick to my beliefs which have proven always true.
Such as...a vengeful god, a jealous god, a spiteful god, an immature god, a confused god, a critical god?
One can pick ANY negative adjective that will describe the god of the OT and it would be spot on.
Another evangelical trait is to say IT IS TRUE and I CAN PROVE IT, then they say WHY BOTHER, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ACCEPT IT ANYWAYS, or they sling other scripture like PIGS AND SWINES, knocking the dust from their sandals- or my personal favorite--IF YOU WERE CALLED YOU WOULD KNOW IT IS THE TRUTH, the same line used by JWs and Mormons to guilt one into join the fold--after all who wants to be the black sheep of the church.
Shouldn't that be "have always proven true."
So in a few short verses, because most evangelicals cannot communicate unless it is with regurgitation of scripture, tell me how your belief (any one) is true without quoting the bible to prove it or saying it gives you warm fuzzy feelings like cuddling a little puppy does..
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Of course. Whatever else could we agree to do? However the point and purpose of the thread is to produce an argument, case and, if we have any, evidence. I produced what I am pleased to think of as evidence based on redaction criticism. You have appealed to the 'Jesus has made such a difference to my life' evangelical package. 
