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Shall we also hold the same view regarding adulterers and fornicators, idolaters, thieves, greedy swindlers, drunkards, etc? Or should we call everyone out of their sin except homosexuals?
1 Cor 6:9-11 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
Yes we should.
And let's hope that will blow your mind enough that you'll shut up.
Quote:
Peter’s Vision
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. 18 They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.
19 While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[a] men are looking for you. 20 So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”
21 Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”
22 The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” 23 Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.
My God is the same God who makes kosher law, and then calls Peter to break it. Who welcomes sinners and tax collectors into the feast. Because a banquet is called for you and your enemies. And you are invited to eat. You are welcomed into the gates with the very people you think don't deserve to be there.
A MUCH better way to reach gays is to rethink what is "SIN." It's not because it is in a book, it's because it actually does harm to someone. As Pleroo said there is NO sin in a gay relationship in love.
That was one of the greatest posts I've read in a long time.
Heartfelt and real.
IF you did actually read that and still responded in the manner you did, then I think you have just proven to me what everyone else has been always saying since I showed up.
MANY people on this site are anti-Christian and I really didn't really get the over-the-top animosity I was getting from some people. I still don't think it is justifiable in any way, but if YOU are the type of "Christian" they have been dealing with for almost 3 years now, then yeah, I can absolutely see where they are coming from.
PLEASE show me where Jesus went around condemning sinners. He was the FRIEND of sinners.
NOWHERE did the OP make ANY suggestion of it being OK. He was very open and vulnerably so, so that he might share the gospel. YOU could take a lesson from that kind of humble spirit that says "it is not about your own pleasure. It's about how you can use this to build God's kingdom".
Where in the Bible do you get it is YOUR job to "Call everyone out of their sin"?
PLEASE show me the verse.
I am not sure that I have agreed with a post by you before or not but I just had to rate this one.
That was one of the greatest posts I've read in a long time.
Heartfelt and real.
IF you did actually read that and still responded in the manner you did, then I think you have just proven to me what everyone else has been always saying since I showed up.
MANY people on this site are anti-Christian and I really didn't really get the over-the-top animosity I was getting from some people. I still don't think it is justifiable in any way, but if YOU are the type of "Christian" they have been dealing with for almost 3 years now, then yeah, I can absolutely see where they are coming from.
PLEASE show me where Jesus went around condemning sinners. He was the FRIEND of sinners.
You mean where he called the Pharisees a brood of vipers? Whitewashed tombs?
Yes--he was a friend to sinners. But he told the woman at the well to sin no more. He told the woman caught in adultery to sin no more. He did not tell them God was ok with their sin and to continue on
Quote:
NOWHERE did the OP make ANY suggestion of it being OK. He was very open and vulnerably so, so that he might share the gospel. YOU could take a lesson from that kind of humble spirit that says "it is not about your own pleasure. It's about how you can use this to build God's kingdom".
Where in the Bible do you get it is YOUR job to "Call everyone out of their sin"?
PLEASE show me the verse.
Matthew 28:18-20
We are called to go forth and make disciples, sharing the Gospel with everyone. That involves confronting the issue of sin.
Last week, we watched a radio show (watched isn't the right word) about Boston Blackie. My dad explained the backstory of Boston Blackie. He said, "He's an ex-thief. He still uses the skills like safe-cracking, but now he helps the law out. The law doesn't totally trust him, but now he's on the right side."
So this movie had a mini-film, as mentioned above, where they quoted 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.
and acted like this was somehow accepting or wonderful.
But the horrible part? It's out of context, and the real passage doesn't end here. It goes on.
I will talk about verse 9-10 first.
The point alot of people miss is that homosexuality, and all these other things are sins. We are tempted to tell other people to bugger off that bother us and call us sinners. But this is not only not productive, this is exactly what sin is. Sin is separation. Pushing people away, picking fights with family and friends and being bitter because nobody loves us. This is when we let hate win in our lives, and don't really help anyone. We are cut off from the kingdom from God, because we are cut off, alone and afraid. Think about the other sins mentioned. Adultery and theft. These are things that in older cultures, you couldn't even talk about because it would make you an outcast. I know about being an outcast.
12-19 next
The other extreme is rather than loneliness, a path of indulgence. ...
You were an LGBT person, and you were discrimination and made an outcast, a "sinner" because of it. You can be tempted to push people away, to go and join orgies, or to become an ex-gay. But here's the thing. You can't become an ex-gay. Any more than you can be an ex-thief. Going back to Boston Blackie, he always has that skill. You always have that desire. It's part of your past. You can continue with it or not, but it will always be who you are. But like some ex-thieves now working in security detail, it is not about your own pleasure. It's about how you can use this to build God's kingdom.
The stuff I paid attention to in Pride? The fair housing services. The national parks wanting to help. The legal firms. The psych help hotlines. They weren't always 100% clued in, but they cared and wanted to make a difference.
I have been trans, and seen people being treated as outsiders. I will never forget this side of myself, and I will never deny it. But it's not about just me. It's about how I can serve. It's "what can you do (as gay, straight, bisexual, pansexual, male, female, intersex, transgender, other, drunk, sober, whatever else that I might miss) to build the kingdom of God? What change would you like to see in this world? Who are you, and what do you have to offer?"
Thoughts?
If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that people viewing you or homosexuals or anyone else as a sinner causes you/them to feel like an outcast and to be tempted to either cut themselves off from others, or to give themselves permission to indulge what others call a sin in a way that isn't healthy.
Am I reading you right?
I think that's very insightful and I wish we could all see each other this way:
Quote:
We don't need the message that LGBT people are heading to hell and they need to be saved. We need the message that they can offer us something, and we can offer them something. A viewpoint on how to build a better world.
That we could see each other (and ourselves) with the understanding that we all have something to offer, regardless of (or maybe because of) our differences and/or what some people think of as our flaws.
That was one of the greatest posts I've read in a long time.
Heartfelt and real.
IF you did actually read that and still responded in the manner you did, then I think you have just proven to me what everyone else has been always saying since I showed up.
MANY people on this site are anti-Christian and I really didn't really get the over-the-top animosity I was getting from some people. I still don't think it is justifiable in any way, but if YOU are the type of "Christian" they have been dealing with for almost 3 years now, then yeah, I can absolutely see where they are coming from.
PLEASE show me where Jesus went around condemning sinners. He was the FRIEND of sinners.
NOWHERE did the OP make ANY suggestion of it being OK. He was very open and vulnerably so, so that he might share the gospel. YOU could take a lesson from that kind of humble spirit that says "it is not about your own pleasure. It's about how you can use this to build God's kingdom".
Where in the Bible do you get it is YOUR job to "Call everyone out of their sin"?
PLEASE show me the verse.
The Bible certainly says we are to judge our fellow Christians. And even not associate with them if they continue in sin!
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church[b] whom you are to judge? 13 God judges[c] those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
1 Corinthians 5:9-12
This is why the idea of a Christian homosexual just doesn't work.
You mean where he called the Pharisees a brood of vipers? Whitewashed tombs?
Yes--he was a friend to sinners. But he told the woman at the well to sin no more. He told the woman caught in adultery to sin no more. He did not tell them God was ok with their sin and to continue on
Matthew 28:18-20
We are called to go forth and make disciples, sharing the Gospel with everyone. That involves confronting the issue of sin.
NO.
The Gospel is THE GOOD NEWS.
We are no longer condemned by the law, we can now be reconciled to God through Christ!
Look at John 16:
But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;…
THE Holy Spirit is the one who convicts of sin NOT YOU or me.
We are to Love one another and live in truth and kindness.
Can you not see the irony in that the ONLY place you could point to an example of Christ condemning a sinner was when Jesus called the Pharisees a brood of vipers?
Let's see what he said before he called them that:
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Can you see it?
He was calling them a brood of vipers BECAUSE they went around proclaiming their own righteousness.
Look at 13:
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
I pray you can see it, I truly do.
Last edited by chadgates; 09-24-2015 at 03:42 PM..
The Bible certainly says we are to judge our fellow Christians. And even not associate with them if they continue in sin!
Then why are you on this forum? I've lost track of how many times you've declared your fellow posters sinners ..... yet here you are associating with the sinners. Including the LGBTQ members of CD.
The Bible certainly says we are to judge our fellow Christians. And even not associate with them if they continue in sin!
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church[b] whom you are to judge? 13 God judges[c] those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
1 Corinthians 5:9-12
This is why the idea of a Christian homosexual just doesn't work.
Fellow Christians is right. Not the lost or the masses on an internet forum.
He also PLAINLY says in verse 12: "For what have I to do with judging outsiders?". and then 13: "God judges those outside"
What I am seeing far too often in the world as well as in these forums is Christians trying to condemn the lost.
That isn't what Christ taught us to do.
If you aren't IN YOUR CHURCH, you shouldn't be addressing anyone's sin but your own as a matter of testimony, as we've seen here.
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