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Old 12-14-2015, 05:34 PM
 
63,810 posts, read 40,087,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Amen, brothers! I am now fairly certain that without experience, it is next to impossible to believe. Sad, very sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
Why is it so important to believe?
I would like to believe certain things but the evidence is lacking (not to mention proof).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
From my point of view, it is important because it is true and it is awesome. But belief in God is something that is entirely personal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067 View Post
No problem. Everyone should be entitled to find their own way not matter what they choose or don't choose to believe. People do use faith on a daily bases though they use faith & hope that they make it though the day or that their loved ones don't get hurt. I would even say that Atheist have some faith even knowing that they don't believe in any deity. They don't have prove that there isn't anything up there or where ever, they believe said deity lives. I'm thinking that would require some sort of faith on their part as well.
I reiterate, without experience it is virtually impossible to believe in God.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 12-14-2015 at 06:17 PM..
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Old 12-14-2015, 05:56 PM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,693,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I reiterate, without experience it is virtually impossible to believe.
I disagree. There are a plethora of things we believe in that we haven't experienced, death being one.
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Old 12-14-2015, 06:18 PM
 
63,810 posts, read 40,087,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I reiterate, without experience it is virtually impossible to believe in God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
I disagree. There are a plethora of things we believe in that we haven't experienced, death being one.
Fixed it.
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Old 12-20-2015, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,383,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I reiterate, without experience it is virtually impossible to believe in God.
Well, I am the biggest proponent in seeing is believing.
That is why I completely understand the human mind as it works in it's 'normal' state
would not believe in a Supernatural Being....or anything even remotely miraculous...
and why should anyone? Because someone told you to?

However, the statement is flawed because I can believe this chair will hold me...but I have never experienced even anyone sitting in it!
It is a blind, unfounded belief or trust.

Now, to know God Is ....I trust direct, up-close and personal, intimate experience...
then, from there to know and understand this Spirit that we live and breathe in..well,
THAT is the prize!
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Old 12-20-2015, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
20,001 posts, read 13,480,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
However, the statement is flawed because I can believe this chair will hold me...but I have never experienced even anyone sitting in it!
It is a blind, unfounded belief or trust.
You are conflating trust and faith.

Trust is a reasonable expectation based on actual experience. You've sat on tens of thousands of chairs by now, in nearly as many situations. That's why you trust a chair will hold you. Indeed, it is why you will spot the occasional chair you DON'T trust because it doesn't fit the pattern of trustworthy chairs.

Faith is a belief you hold on someone's say so or your own desires without requiring any experience or knowledge.

Faith can be reinforced by seeking out experiences that reinforce it ... and if you are one of those folks who readily has positive subjective emotional experiences then you can stimulate those experiences and credit them to god or whatever. In every case where I've encountered people who are enthusiastic about their faith in god it is because they get a lot of emotional "juice" from it and can self-select positive experiences in favor of negative ones. I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with that, just that it's not universal.

People like me are left with emotional associations that come mostly from consequential life events and because people are wired to notice negative events (threats) over positive ones, we're left with a net balance of negative life experiences which serve as a source of cognitive dissonance that can only be resolved with a sufficiently potent rationalization. When your rationalizer (tm) eventually wears out then you simply jettison the belief system that produces the dissonance, for one that does not.

Once you get used to the absence of cognitive dissonance you grow rather attached to that absence and see no reason to return to it because your life is ever so much better without it.

My guess is that isn't a problem you needed to solve; you are a person who is naturally high on life because of personality and biochemistry (or if you weren't always that way you simply learned how to manipulate your own tendencies in a better way). You could just as well ascribe your happiness to a dozen other ideologies relating to magic crystals or unicorns instead of god and it would still work for you. You just need a little something to hang your hat on.

I'm not suggesting you should do it any differently; it's clearly working for you and I'm guessing it's largely working for those around you. I'm simply explaining why I don't buy that it will work for anyone. Everyone's boat floats differently. It's easy to say "x worked for me, you should do it to" but it doesn't necessarily follow. There's nothing wrong with your joyful take on things but then there's nothing wrong with me needing things rendered comprehensible and explicable as a precondition to taking them in, either.
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