Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The point of the word "God" is what is missing. All you have done is define your priorities. Which is of course not a bad thing, introspection is a fantastic tool for anyone, agnostic, gnostic, theist, or atheist.
OP asked for people to share their definition of the word "God". I did so. I shared both a working definition from the dictionary for myself, personally, as someone who is unsure of the the existence of God, as well as a definition that I believe is more widely applicable when having a discussion with others about the question of a "God's" existence. Two definitions. Neither of them missed the point for me. If they missed the point for you, that's fine.
Quote:
But why label them "God"? The only reason to do so is to take advantage of some shade of meaning, some association that the word "God" has, that "priorities" or "values" do not. It is those shades of meaning that make the word choice interesting, and this is what I think was at the heart of the original question. Why that word?
I label what I give importance to in my life "God" because I believe "God" in the sense of the second definition I offered, to be a very real possibility, and then, I sometimes don't believe it is. So, using the first definition I mentioned of "God", covers both possibilities for me quite nicely, in my personal reflections, as I said. I'm not sure why that's a problem for anyone else.
Quote:
When I was a recent deconvert, struggling to admit that I was in fact an atheist, I tried to retain "God" in some metaphoric sense, some way that I could still talk about God, participate in religious life while not being fake or phoney. I think this for some is why they attach the word to concepts that have perfectly good words otherwise. It was a way to try to still be able to "speak the same language" as my family and friends while meaning something different,to avoid having to deal with the issue.
It seems like there may be other reasons that people continue to retain religious language, attached to what appear to be otherwise understandable ideas. For me this is the interesting bit. I would be fascinated to understand what it is that keeps you attached to the word "God"... I eventually couldn't hang on to it, I just had to sort of "come clean" with myself and come to terms with my own unbelief, but I know others have very different experiences...
-NoCapo
Sounds perfectly reasonable and, yes, I find that it is handy for somewhat the same reason. At those times when I'm more inclined to not believe there is a God (in the second sense), that doesn't mean I feel the need to create a divide with many of the people who do. Because, you see, either way I believe that love (keeping the best interests of everyone in mind) is "God" (my first definition). I can find that common ground with theists and atheists alike. That's important common ground, and I see no reason to lose it by quibbling over whether or not someone believes in a God (the second definition) at times when I'm not sure I do. My level of belief is in a constant state of flux, as most people who know me on this forum are aware. It would be quite cumbersome to feel the need to announce every moment what that level is.
Then the term becomes effectively meaningless, unless (as Mystic does) you postulate a cosmic intelligence (above and beyond dogs and dolphins doing organized pack -hunting) that exists apart from our individual minds.
You've said this many times before. Of course, ignoring that I noted that God is NOT what any other might demand God to be in order to cut it as God for for them.
I feel "All the matter and energy that exists and has existed" (oft times referred to as "All", "Everything", "Universe", etc) is "GOD" because it would necessarily be responsible for all creation, the maintenance of all there is, and sustains all there is. The maintenance and sustenance is done through "laws" and "processes", some of which that have even been figured out and known to be. (Thermodynamics, Gravity, Evolution, etc). We also have figured out that the totality of this Energy/Matter is expanding (growing) constantly. All these attributes compel me to view "All there is and has been" as GOD...to ME. That you or anyone else doesn't is not consequential.
You know I came to this board off a link during a search. I had been Atheist for over 40 years...but felt I might be missing something.
I found here posts by "MysticPhd" that intrigued me. I inquired of him and through his great kindness, generosity, and patience...he enlightened me to what I had not previously considered or known. There is still much I don't know of the finer details (such as the maifestation of "All There Is" through consciousness) of it all. But I know enough now.
Just as I don't know the full finer details of how many things (like Gravity, for example) were or are figured out...but I know enough to understand so that through perception and intuition I can have faith in the merit of the reasoned determinations and conclusions I have come to.
I have noted that we ALL come to differing determination, conclusions, and opinions on the matter. This in no way diminishes another's differing opinion on it. And I feel only those that are based in a negative vibe would insult, mock, or criticize the differing perception or intuition of another.
ego = I am most important, I am at the center of this
humble = I am NOT most important, making room for something else that is more important than i am; God is most important
You assume way too much about motivations in other people. If your absence would be noticed it is not because you are most important but because you were able to contribute something of value to the family member / fellow human / employer / customer, which reinforces your motivation to produce more value. Just because I don't let an imagined third party invisible actor take the credit on my behalf doesn't make me arrogant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
the satisfying solution to the work problem? thank you God, you are so smart, no way could i do that on my own
helping my dear spouse? thank you God for giving me this family and surrounding us with your love and caring, help me to always be patient and kind, even when i don't feel like it, because I can not do that on my own
a moment of connection with one of the kids? thank you God for always being there for us, just as this time with my son is precious, so too you take great delight in us Your children when we speak with You
for someone who seeks relationship and connection with the Divine, everything experienced in daily life exists solely to illuminate God's loving benificent presence in my life, the never ending grace, love, care and intelligence that seek only to fill, love, surround, and enfold me and my life.
Yes this is the sad and unfortunate thing about many versions of religion. You put in the effort to develop expertise, caring, selflessness, or whatever, you put that out into your world rather than being clueless or self absorbed or whatever, and you durst not give yourself the slightest credit -- or allow anyone else to credit you for that -- because your jealous god would be offended rather than acting like a proud parent and saying, "well done, good and faithful servant".
It reminds me of the cartoon with the surgeon talking to another surgeon and saying to him, "I swear, if this person thanks god for curing them of this cancerous tumor, I'm putting it back in."
The reality is that appreciation and thanks amplifies people's motivation to do good in the world. Of course it's possible for it to go to one's head but that doesn't mean we should not accept legitimate credit where it is due, or act like the slightest flush of accomplishment is a sin. Inaccurate self-estimation is a completely separate problem from appropriate credit for actual good deeds.
It is also true that one cannot really have specific expectations in this regard. People tend to take kindness for granted. Knowing you are doing the Right Thing for its own sake must be sufficient. However, cultivating the ability to recognize and appreciate others is a positive social grace which is only denigrated by the person you thank "giving all the glory to god". After awhile we bypass giving credit where it is due and lavish it all on our externally projected gods, where I assure you it is quite wasted as there is no one there to lap it up. And even if there were, it would be inappropriate and immoral usurpation of credit where it's actually due.
I look everywhere at the kindnesses shown to me and the good done to me and I do not see gods explaining any of it. I give full credit to my wife, my children, or whoever the actual actor is in that situation.
for me? God creates, sustains, and permeates all of existence and everything in it across time and space. God is both within us (immanent) and all around us (transcendent). All knowing, all powerful, all loving, ever present, as near to me as my own hands and feet, and exquisitely concerned with and involved in every detail of my life and well being.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo
See, this makes more sense. This sounds like a god to me.It is not so far removed from what us atheists posted. Of course, this is something we can find no evidence to support, so we don't believe, but I can agree with you that this idea, this concept is definitely a god.
-NoCapo
Except it's a description rather than a definition.
The smallest volume: The biosphere. For now its all we have. I sum it up as "alive".
Gravity waves and the fact that space is something means it can be extended far beyond earth. But we need to keep it simple for the fundy-mentals and milli-mentals. I exclude abused children that grow until they can prove theirs is not an emotional view.
Right now I like the Tao version. After all Yahweh didn't wipe out the Chinese in a flood or make them build an ark. AmIRight?
The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.
or
If you can talk about it,
it ain’t Tao.
If it has a name,
it’s just another thing
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
