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Old 11-20-2015, 12:40 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 15,966,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Evolution is a process, not a percentage similarity. Is that a straw man you are putting up there?
It was a straw woman. You got something against a straw women?


Quote:
Ignoring that - the point was, wasn't that the gosh-darnest coincidence that its the animal with the closest genome to us - 98% identity. You don't think that's a huge coincidence?
No, it isn't a coincidence. It is just the way God used similar building materials to build the chimp as He did the human.

Quote:
Explain how does evolution not occur.
A better question would be "When has evolution ever occurred?"
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Old 11-20-2015, 12:40 PM
bg7
 
7,694 posts, read 10,560,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Evolution is a broad term.

Evolution or change with in a Kind (a group that can reproduce among its members) is common which is why we have Wolves and Collies. However Darwinian Evolution and it's variants deal with a change outside the "Kind" limits and that has never occurred and cannot. Generally the difference is shown through the use of the terms Micro evolution, staying within the reproducible family and Macro Evolution which claims a change to a new Kind like a fish becoming a mammal.

Variety exists and can even be manipulated thus Micro evolution is real, but the massive change Darwinian Evolution requires cannot, and has not, occurred.


What's your authority for saying evolution cannot occur?


And why would a first generation mutation not be able to reproduce with its non-mutated form (unless it was a fatal or sterility mutation)?


Do you think there is a limit in the number of consecutive mutations a DNA molecule of an animal will "stop itself" going beyond after a million years!? How the heck does that happen?




"micro evolution" and "macro evolution" are terms used by people to deny evolution. In fact all they describe is evolution over the period of 1000's of years versus 100's of millions of years.
Micro erosion (what the Colorado has done to change the landscape in 5000 years) and macro erosion (what the Colorado has done to change the landscape in 5,000,000 years).
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Old 11-20-2015, 12:42 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 15,966,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
It wasn't 24 hours or a literal day in context and based on word meaning.
According to you.
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Old 11-20-2015, 12:43 PM
bg7
 
7,694 posts, read 10,560,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
It was a straw woman. You got something against a straw women?


No, it isn't a coincidence. It is just the way God used similar building materials to build the chimp as He did the human.

A better question would be "When has evolution ever occurred?"


Why is that a better question? Does that mean you cannot explain why evolution cannot occur?
That should be pretty easy to answer. What's the logical problem, specifically.
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Old 11-20-2015, 12:51 PM
bg7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
It wasn't 24 hours or a literal day in context and based on word meaning.

However the Bible does say God created plants, animals and man separate from each other, eliminating Evolution, but not eliminating variations within a family "Kind".


I've got the Book of Genesis in front of me. It doesn't say anywhere he created them "separate from each other" as you seem to want that term interpreted (like there is no commonality amongst them - like DNA or something). It says He made them on separate days sure - creating animals, cattle etc. anyway, plants and man. It does not say how he created man, it does not say man was not created from an animal. And in any event, if He created them on different days, but from the same starting thing - (remember, it doesn't say how he created them) then... how does that preclude Evolution. It doesn't. You've just decided it does, but there's no requirement for that based on reading the words.


It also says he created the plants before he created the Sun, but lets ignore that for now.
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Old 11-20-2015, 12:54 PM
bg7
 
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Ok, I'm out. Enjoy your days of rest.
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Old 11-20-2015, 01:17 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,395,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post


I thought is was closer to 93%. The similarities between chimps and humans is great. Heart, lungs, basic body structure and so on. The differences lie in the details.
And details are critical. One report showed as low as 60% similarity.The 90 plus % report was a bit biased and ... well, used to support something that is not quite as close as claimed.
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Old 11-20-2015, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
11,019 posts, read 5,984,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
It was a straw woman. You got something against a straw women?


No, it isn't a coincidence. It is just the way God used similar building materials to build the chimp as He did the human.

A better question would be "When has evolution ever occurred?"
So does that mean you cannot explain why evolution cannot occur? So instead you need us to explain how it could occur? But we have already done that. Just go and have a look at your dog. It evolved from a wolf and did so in front of mans eyes. In fact, man created the dog. Does that make us God too?

You keep asking for visible evidence of evolution. Ever had influenza? The influenza virus keeps mutating. This proves that mutations can and do occur regularly and successfully.
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Old 11-20-2015, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,259,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Macro Evolution ( I separate it to avoid confusion). I figure you know what I mean.

Has never been demonstrated in any test and never observed in the real world. It is claimed with no factual support.

Please, for the umpteenth time, provide one verifiable scientific test, ONE.
There are plenty of examples but for the 3rd time here I am posting this video of evolution right before your eyes. This is EXACTLY how Natural Selection works.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irnc6w_Gsas

Video Transcript:

Quote:
The way we start an experiment we inoculate bacteria in the area where there’s no drug. They’re happy, they grow, they have enough food and they start propagating forward.
At one point though they reach boundary where now they need to move into an area that have enough drug to kill them. They want to go there is because there’s food…but they cannot because every time they try get killed by the drug.

OK at that point without Evolution nothing would have happened. For the bacteria to move forward and to be able to grow at these higher drug concentrations, they need a very specific change mutation in the DNA in the genome, in the genes. The chance for that mutation to occur is very slim…maybe 1 in a Billion Ok. But because we have many many bacteria (in this experiment) trying to do that…more than a Billion, then only 1 or a few of them by chance would acquire that very unique rare mutation that would allow them to grow and penetrate into these conditions where the drug concentration is higher. It is only that bacterium AND it’s progeny that would be able to enjoy the food at that new region and they would take over the population and now we have a new population again of billions of bacteria BUT all of them now are resistant to the drug. Now as they grow they propagate forward, now they reach another step, another drug concentration that’s increasing 10 fold higher. Again it’s the same game. We are looking at bacteria looking for a very specific change to the DNA, to the genes which allows them to grow in these higher drug concentration. The chance for that again is 1 in a Billion, BUT again they win by the numbers. There are more than a Billion cells on this plate, and some of them even if just few would be able to mutate and grow and be able to penetrate yet higher drug concentrations. And this process keep going and we just want to see how far can they reach, and can they actually go to 140 maybe even 1040 times the drug concentration.

So what we see in that experiment, we see Evolution happen in action in front of our eyes. What is Evolution? Naturally when the bacteria replicates the DNA from time to time, by chance make a mistake in replicating the DNA. These mistakes change one letter in the DNA, in the genes of these bacteria. We call these “mistakes”, mutations. This mutation appeared by chance. Many of them have no effect or even are bad for the bacteria. But a very specific change that allows the bacteria to grow at a higher drug concentration. Ok. Many of these changes appear all of the time, but when the bacteria reach the point where they encounter the higher drug concentration then only this really unique one set that got this unique mutation that allow it to resist the drug, only it will be able to grow and divide when the rest are dying, and it will take over the population. And now we are dealing with a new population again of a Billion cells descended from this one individual, that by chance got a specific mutation that allow it to resist the drug.
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Old 11-20-2015, 01:28 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,395,091 times
Reputation: 9328
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
I've got the Book of Genesis in front of me. It doesn't say anywhere he created them "separate from each other" as you seem to want that term interpreted (like there is no commonality amongst them - like DNA or something). It says He made them on separate days sure - creating animals, cattle etc. anyway, plants and man. It does not say how he created man, it does not say man was not created from an animal. And in any event, if He created them on different days, but from the same starting thing - (remember, it doesn't say how he created them) then... how does that preclude Evolution. It doesn't. You've just decided it does, but there's no requirement for that based on reading the words.


It also says he created the plants before he created the Sun, but lets ignore that for now.
You are not reading with comprehension.

One the sun was created in Genesis 1:1 with no time frame at all. The light being visible was later, after the cloud canopy was translucent (Long issue with some interesting evdience about it)

Grass, Plants, Trees were created. 3rd day

then sea creatures and flying creatures

Then land animals.

Then man as a special creation.

Each day eliminates Darwinian Evolution as they were "made" not evolved. Variation is built in, but each Kind was made. Also a Kind was defined (Remember God is not teaching science, just giving a very broad overview).

(Genesis 1:12, 13) 12 And the earth began to put forth grass, vegetation bearing seed according to its kind and trees yielding fruit, the seed of which is in it according to its kind. Then God saw that [it was] good. 13 And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a third day.


(Genesis 1:24, 25) . . .. 25 And God went on to make the wild animals of the earth according to their kinds and the domestic animals according to their kinds and all the creeping animals of the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

(Genesis 1:24, 25) 24 And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so. 25 And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good.


Each Kind is separate, not derived from another Kind.Here the word Kind in Hebrew is family kind.
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