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Old 10-29-2015, 06:01 PM
 
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The story of Samson is the best illustration for what I think is the repeated theme throughout the entire Bible. In this story, a man grows stronger and stronger. Then he becomes arrogant. Then he becomes quickly humbled. It is his state of HUMILITY that eventually leads him back to his strength again.

That is what I think the message throughout the Bible is. If you are so ABOVE everyone else that you become arrogant and proud, then this will eventually lead to your downfall. But in that valley you will find strength again. It's a book of psychology, using all kinds of wild supernatural stories as illustrations of the psychology.

"The first will be last. The last will be first." (Jesus)

What do you think about this theme?
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Old 10-29-2015, 06:24 PM
 
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i agree that arrogance leads to a person being toppled
and i agree that in being humble, there is great strength and power both
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Old 10-30-2015, 05:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post

What do you think about this theme?
I think it's dangerous to take two separate bodies of ancient writings (the Hebrew Bible and the Greek New Testament), written over the course of many hundreds of years by many different people with various points of view and concerns, and smash them together into one super collection called "the BIBLE" and then try to find a systematic theology or theme that all of these different people were somehow magically keeping as their muse.

It's a very Christian Fundamentalist view that has to assume some sort of (divine) oversight guiding the writing of such a collection.

Sure, some of the stories share this theme - but it's a theme that's present in much of world literature. I doubt that one would take the entire body of Shakespeare's work and claim that it also shares this "central theme" merely because some of the stories show the foolishness of human arrogance.
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Old 10-30-2015, 05:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
I think it's dangerous to take two separate bodies of ancient writings (the Hebrew Bible and the Greek New Testament), written over the course of many hundreds of years by many different people with various points of view and concerns, and smash them together into one super collection called "the BIBLE" and then try to find a systematic theology or theme that all of these different people were somehow magically keeping as their muse.

It's a very Christian Fundamentalist view that has to assume some sort of (divine) oversight guiding the writing of such a collection.

Sure, some of the stories share this theme - but it's a theme that's present in much of world literature. I doubt that one would take the entire body of Shakespeare's work and claim that it also shares this "central theme" merely because some of the stories show the foolishness of human arrogance.
But not if you take the assumption that many of the New Testament writers were using a symbolic interpretation of the Hebrew scriptures. In fact, I am absolutely certain that they were. Whatever the meaning was, I have to believe that it would have all fallen under psychology by today's definition.
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Old 10-30-2015, 06:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
I think it's dangerous to take two separate bodies of ancient writings (the Hebrew Bible and the Greek New Testament), written over the course of many hundreds of years by many different people with various points of view and concerns, and smash them together into one super collection called "the BIBLE" and then try to find a systematic theology or theme that all of these different people were somehow magically keeping as their muse.

It's a very Christian Fundamentalist view that has to assume some sort of (divine) oversight guiding the writing of such a collection.

Sure, some of the stories share this theme - but it's a theme that's present in much of world literature. I doubt that one would take the entire body of Shakespeare's work and claim that it also shares this "central theme" merely because some of the stories show the foolishness of human arrogance.
If there is a central theme, it would this.

Humans struggling first to make sense of existence and their place in it. Human interaction with God, first as creator, then as friend (walking and talking in the garden of Eden), then as lord (frequently after punishment), then as savior through jesus, and frequent song and prophecy makes it clear that God will eventually "marry" the Church. It is the story of the evolution of a love affair between God and humans. It is also about sin and how our perception that offerings will take care of it is misguided. That sin was forgiven, it's us that have trouble letting it go.
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Old 10-30-2015, 08:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The story of Samson is the best illustration for what I think is the repeated theme throughout the entire Bible. In this story, a man grows stronger and stronger. Then he becomes arrogant. Then he becomes quickly humbled. It is his state of HUMILITY that eventually leads him back to his strength again.

That is what I think the message throughout the Bible is. If you are so ABOVE everyone else that you become arrogant and proud, then this will eventually lead to your downfall. But in that valley you will find strength again. It's a book of psychology, using all kinds of wild supernatural stories as illustrations of the psychology.

"The first will be last. The last will be first." (Jesus)

What do you think about this theme?
That is certainly one of the central themes of the Bible.

As one reads the Old Testament in particular, it can be difficult to see any point to some of the chapters. "What is THIS doing in the Bible?" is a common reaction (mine as well). There is a new book that deals with this: Crazy Stories, Sane God: Lessons From the Most Unexpected Places in the Bible by John Alan Turner. I haven't read it, but I heard an interview with the author and it sounded like it might be worthwhile.

One needs to bear in mind that the Israelites were a polytheistic society. Remnants of this appear in the Old Testament. Some of the seemingly bizarre - well, not just "seemingly" bizarre, but "actually" bizarre - stories make more sense if you recognize that YHWH is attempting to demonstrate and hammer home to the primitive Israelites that he is the sole Creator God and is attempting to enter into a covenant with them.

Turner's point in the interview was that we do a disservice to God and to the Bible if we skim through the bizarre parts pretending that everything is normal. ("Yeah, sure, God saved Lot from the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah, whereupon both of his daughters immediately got him drunk and committed incest with him. No problem there.") We have to confront these parts, assume they are in the Bible for a reason, and work through what they are trying to tell us.

I do think it is wise to read the Bible in terms of overarching themes rather than with a microscope. It is certainly a book of psychology in that one of the overarching themes is "The flaws in human nature." Reading it in terms of overarching themes tends to avoid "Bible idolatry," which is one of the things that, IMHO, really plagues Christianity today.
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Old 10-30-2015, 11:48 AM
 
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The best way to do is to gather a few word theme for each book of the Bible and see how each chapter and verse relate to the theme.
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Old 10-30-2015, 11:50 AM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,192,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The story of Samson is the best illustration for what I think is the repeated theme throughout the entire Bible. In this story, a man grows stronger and stronger. Then he becomes arrogant. Then he becomes quickly humbled. It is his state of HUMILITY that eventually leads him back to his strength again.

That is what I think the message throughout the Bible is. If you are so ABOVE everyone else that you become arrogant and proud, then this will eventually lead to your downfall. But in that valley you will find strength again. It's a book of psychology, using all kinds of wild supernatural stories as illustrations of the psychology.

"The first will be last. The last will be first." (Jesus)

What do you think about this theme?
You pick up on a few of the points, yes. But the point of it is that God was faithful to him ---even though he was proud, arrogant, etc. In the end, God used him to deliver the Israelites from the Philistines.

He is one of a number of recurring heroes, or champions in the Bible--they are a "type" of Christ. They all point forward to the ultimate hero, our Messiah Jesus. Jesus conquered sin once and for all, thereby redeeming his people.
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Old 10-30-2015, 03:47 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The story of Samson is the best illustration for what I think is the repeated theme throughout the entire Bible. In this story, a man grows stronger and stronger. Then he becomes arrogant. Then he becomes quickly humbled. It is his state of HUMILITY that eventually leads him back to his strength again.

That is what I think the message throughout the Bible is. If you are so ABOVE everyone else that you become arrogant and proud, then this will eventually lead to your downfall. But in that valley you will find strength again. It's a book of psychology, using all kinds of wild supernatural stories as illustrations of the psychology.

"The first will be last. The last will be first." (Jesus)

What do you think about this theme?
The theme is reused often in many religions, but the Jewish story itself is a little bit more macabre and irrationally violent than the theme itself would have you expect.
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Old 10-30-2015, 04:25 PM
 
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Samson = Jonathan = Jonah = Jesus
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