What God's Rule is Like (Christian, believe, belief, eternal)
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I believe it's along the lines of: "Learn to govern yourself". Don't wait for other people to do that. Don't wait for God to do it. The goal is that you take responsibility for yourself and your own attitudes and behaviors, because that is where true freedom lies. That's what I got out of it, anyway.
I believe this is meant to be in opposition to the idea some seem to have that God, at some point, is going to put some hyper-controlling government in place on earth so that everyone will have to behave. ( And some people are hoping or assuming that THEY are going to be the ones ruling over everyone else.) Or maybe it's in opposition to the idea that in the "afterlife" God is going to be doing some form of mind control over everyone so that no one does anything sinful.
That's the size of it.
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Regrettably, I believe you've been tricked. These atheists you're "hearing" are ridiculing your beliefs by scornfully playing off your literal interpretation of God, which they actually think is ridiculous nonsense. They probably wanted to get a rise out of you (and apparently succeeded) by striking a nerve - they evidently have said things to you that they knew you'd take literally, while communicating their actual message, the scorn, as the subtext their ridicule. If their intent was to trick you into doubling-down on building your arguments atop your own arguments (a logical fallacy) they succeeded. And they got you to expose Islamophobia at the same time. They've got to be tickled pink.
Sounds to me like you're projecting. I can't remember the last time I've had a "literal interpretation" on anything.
Islam is a valid threat. This culture came about 1200 years ago or so. And while other religions have changed with the times, these are still the same violent thugs that think stoning is okay. To say nothing of them legitimately trashing Paris. That's not a "phobia" this is a fact.
They're precisely the type of people who think they are going to rule at the right and left hand of heaven. And likely gonna get a rude awakening when they realize that in Heaven violence only hurts yourself. In the end, my fear of them is only this-life. Not the afterlife.
(Skip to about 8:00-9:00 if you want to get to the point)
Basically, violent people create their own Hell (same place as Heaven, positive/negative you), so while my mortal body is indeed afraid of Islam, they can only do more harm to themselves than me. Have a nice time in "Paradise." Good riddance.
And who uses the phrase "tickled pink"? What are you, 80? Really, tickled pink? It's from 1910.
Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 11-13-2015 at 08:48 PM..
Actually, the point is that God is in charge. He will do what he wants. If he wants to give someone a reward he'll reward them, and it has NOTHING to do with what you THINK he deserves, or if you THINK you're somehow more deserving.
I guess your God believes the people of Paris deserved this latest attack by demented scum of the earth then, right Vizio????
I am sorry that my comments seem to have embarrassed you into posting a vacuous deflection like this. I won't belabor those points.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
I can't remember the last time I've had a "literal interpretation" on anything.
Except you had just done so. I'm sorry my comment didn't help you realize it.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
Islam is a valid threat.
Terrorism is a valid threat. Islam doesn't cause terrorism. Perceived social and political injustice cause terrorism, not religion. Religion rationalizes misconceptions and misdirection regarding injustice, but that's related to fundamentalism not religion itself, and present in all religion roughly in proportion to the extent the religion's population lives in poverty or other types of oppression. (Just in case you are the type of person who thinks that every attribution like that is an accusation against you personally, please let me be clear: You need not be the agent of oppression for people to be oppressed. People you don't care about can even perceive that they're oppressed by other people you don't care about, yet they perceive that they're oppressed.)
That's really the problem with your whole line of argument: You scrape the surface either unwilling or unable to dig down into the nuances to find the root causes of the things you talk about. That's probably why you don't realize your own literalist bent - to you it just looks like normality, because you don't care to dig down and compare it to the whole.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
This culture came about 1200 years ago or so. And while other religions have changed with the times, these are still the same violent thugs that think stoning is okay.
It also explains why you're so quick to jump to categorical statements about other people, as you did with this statement, completely missing the fact that you're describing the whole by referring to attributes of a very small portion of them. It would be like people describing Americans as narrow-minded fundamentalists, because a few Americans are narrow-minded fundamentalists.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
To say nothing of them legitimately trashing Paris. That's not a "phobia" this is a fact.
What is a fact is that ethnocentrists and other bigots were quick to jump on tragedy last night to try to make a political point. It was the most disgusting display of callous disregard for others that I've seen in years, belying any claims of religious or more generalized moral standing for their perspectives. Moral human beings are the ones who are horrified by the tragedy, express sadness for the fallen, compassion for those who lost loved ones, and support for those who are working to contain the risk and reestablish order and safety. I don't know what you call the people who thought it was a good idea to spew hatred for a religion instead, but surely not "moral".
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
And who uses the phrase "tickled pink"? What are you, 80?
So in additional to Islamophobia, you're quick to reveal ageism as well. Sigh.
Wow, really? People just died and you still call it a phobia?
Seriously, guy, get over yourself. I love my parents, and I loved my grandparents. I don't care for people who use stupid expressions but I'll get over it.
As for the rest of us. I think it's important to realize that while this event was a sign of intense violence, the first impulse of returning it for more violence will bring us no closer to God's rule. Rather than expressing any more hate towards Islam or indeed giving it a second thought, our love needs to go out to these French. Now if you'll excuse me I need to go charge my phone.
Wow, really? People just died and you still call it a phobia?
Yes, just like I'd call a lynch mob a lynch mob, and I'd call lies lies. Did you even read the rest of my comment? Let me copy and paste the relevant portion here, since you clearly either didn't read it or it didn't sink in:
What is a fact is that ethnocentrists and other bigots were quick to jump on tragedy last night to try to make a political point. It was the most disgusting display of callous disregard for others that I've seen in years, belying any claims of religious or more generalized moral standing for their perspectives. Moral human beings are the ones who are horrified by the tragedy, express sadness for the fallen, compassion for those who lost loved ones, and support for those who are working to contain the risk and reestablish order and safety. I don't know what you call the people who thought it was a good idea to spew hatred for a religion instead, but surely not "moral".
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
Seriously, guy, get over yourself.
I'm sorry that my holding a mirror up to disgusting displays of callous disregard for others prompts you to post such a vacuous personal attack.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
I love my parents, and I loved my grandparents.
Good for you. Since you seem to not appreciate my comments, perhaps you'll listen to the Dalai Lama instead:
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Whether we accept religion or not, we all need to cultivate compassion and concern for others, because we are social animals. Human intelligence allows us to expand that sense of compassion, extending it beyond our immediate family and friends.
[Emphasis added.]
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
Rather than expressing any more hate towards Islam or indeed giving it a second thought, our love needs to go out to these French.
I'm glad you finally realized that your expressing hate toward Islam was wrong. If my comments helped prompt your rehabilitation, I'm gratified.
As for me, I'm gonna shrug off whatever you just said. The only bit of it I actually read was concerning tge Dalai Lama. And I think you are confusing compassion for submission.
We must "be gentle as doves but wise as serpents", never lowering ourselves to the crass violence of our enemies (which I admit I am guilty of from time to time) but never forgetting where they are is not where we wanna be. I'm not letting you suck my joy or ruin my day, and I'm not letting other people I dislike (and I do dislike, a person who ceases to have feelings is no longer human) ruin my day. Sorry, but that's your hangup not mine. I'm saving my joy for those I care about.
Because if this has taught me anything, it that precisely this is God's world, to live together. Compassion doesn't mean the people who give grief get to control how you feel. It means at the end of the day, you care about their pain and want to see them have a better time.
Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 11-14-2015 at 06:06 AM..
Many of Jesus' teachings were aimed at those people who thought they were special because they were already religious, already part of the club and therefore thought they would have positions of power, glory and esteem in the Kingdom. His ministry was to "the lost sheep of Israel" (Matthew 15:24), the poor, the sinners, the marginalized of society. Those were the ones who needed help and saving before the Eschaton - not those people who were already part of the religious system and were already receiving earthly rewards.
He talked about treasures and rewards and told the religious that they already had their rewards - they enjoyed all the earthly things that a religious life of piety brought: long life, wealth, a good name, etc. It was a very Deuteronomic idea of Retributive Justice: if you followed God, you received certain things as detailed in the Covenant on this earth in this life. There was no idea that good things came to those who waited, and in some weird afterlife. I don't think Jesus was a fan of this idea, so cogently critiqued in the Book of Job and shown to be very problematic.
So when talking about "the last will be first" and "the meek shall inherit the earth", etc., he seems to have been talking about the people he ministered to, the marginalized "sinners". They would receive their share in the Kingdom, regardless of when they decided to accept God's rule. They would be "paid" just as much as those who had already been part of the religious system. Frequently, Jesus had disabused the Aspostles' belief that their Discipleship would give them some sort of special status in the Kingdom.
In talking about the "first shall be last", Jesus had this exchange with his followers:
10:35
Then James and John, Zebedee's sons, approached him.
"Rabbi," they said, "we wish you to do something for us." 36 "What is
it you want me to do for you?" he asked. 37 They replied, "Give us the
right to sit with you, one at the right, the other at your left, in your
triumph." 38 "You do not know what you are asking," Jesus said to
them. "Can you drink the cup that I drink or be baptized with the
baptism I am baptized with?" 39 "We can," they answered. "The cup
that I drink," Jesus sai9 to them, "you shall drink, and the baptism I
am baptized with shall be your baptism. 40 But to sit at my right or my
left is not mine to give; it is for those to whom it has been assigned."
41 On hearing of this, the ten were indignant with James and John.
42 So Jesus called them together to him and said, "You are aware that
those who are recognized as rulers· among the foreigners lord it over
their subjects, and their great men impose their authority. 43 That is
not the way with you; among you, anyone who wants to be great must
be your servant, 44 and if anyone among you wishes to be first, he must
be the slave of all. 45 For The Man did not come to be served, but to
serve, and to give himself as a ransom for the community."
(Mark 10:35-45 AB Mann)
I'm not so sure the Kingdom was meant to be some sort of socialist experiment, or that the parable in the OP was meant to express God's right to do whatever he wanted, either. It seems to have had more to do with the assumptions of the religious, and their desire for special status! Jesus had no need to deal with the religious, they didn't need his efforts.
This thread some others on this part of C-D remind me why it feels so good to post elsewhere. So much hate and condescending posts here. I would suggest that C-D get rid of this forum.
There is an "OFF" button on your computer. I don't know your personal situation, but please correct me if there is, in fact, a madman holding a very large gun to your head and forcing you to read the contents of individual threads on this forum. I will send help as soon as possible!
Yeah, this is my thinking here. I work in a library. Anyone can print or copy anything they please, including religious proselytizing or hate speech. If it is posted at the library, don't expect someone not to become upset and tear it down though!
We all have the same Heaven given to us. From my understanding (which isn't totally Christian-based but doesn't appear to be contradicted either), this Heaven is very much like a mirror. You are able to get what you need. If you have a twisted view of what you need (I "need" to rape women, because I'm lonely), you might find Heaven to be more a curse than a blessing (very much a "be careful what you wish for" deal).
Long analogy short, there is no "deserving more/less". People will go to Afterlife, and their needs are met. If they have a bunch of anger/fear/or negative energy, this will have to be cleansed first (meaning alot of self-torture happens). It's not that God is punishing them, it's like having radiation on you, in the form of excess negativity.
Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 11-14-2015 at 09:52 AM..
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