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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,925,051 times
Reputation: 4561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Because deep down, you know there is a God and just don't want to admit it yourself.
Nope .
Deep down I know there is no omniscient, omnipotent, anthropological yet invisible entity that exists. Nor is there any evidence that has ever been presented by you or anyone else that suggests otherwise. Fundies keep skirt around the issue, but cannot produce any evidence at all.
Case law has established precedent that government-owned, that is, taxpayer-funded entities such as a hotel run by a state university, can NOT appear to be pushing any one single religion. It's not about "establishing" a religion. The law specifically states that "establishing" a religion also includes supporting or promoting a religion, as well. This means that the Establishment Clause is correct in this instance given that the hotel IS a state-run business. <Snip>
Well, like I said, it actually is a Constitutional issue. The problem is that your definitions are too narrow; case law and precedent has a much wider take on the separation of church and state.
As usual, your well-argued posts are well taken, Shirina. But the extremism that I am reacting to is the one reflected above and in the "too broad" application of the establishment clause in case law and precedent. I agree that there is a need to constrain the religious fundamentalists and I understand the abreaction that is engendered by the "sins of the past". But it is precisely that abreaction that accounts for the "too broad" application of the establishment clause provision. As they say "great cases make bad law."
Some overreaction is understandable because the religious abuses have been so long-lived and egregious. But it is the extremism revealed in this instance that breeds even more ad absurdum applications leading to a trivialization of the spirit of the law. These misguided efforts just strengthen the resolve of the fundamentalists who double down in their abreaction to what they see as an assault on their God and their values. That simply exacerbates what has been and remains a very intractable issue. You would call it picking your battles, but there is little of that going on. It is an unrestricted assault fostering the very feelings of persecution you claim are unjustified. Whether or not it is impatience with the pace of progress (which has been excellent lately) is undetermined, but it may create a backlash that may be worse than the trivial crap they are pursuing.
And his name is Allah. 1.6 billion Muslims can't be wrong.
Deep down you know that Allah is the true God, but you are in a state of rebellion against him, so you deny him and cling to a false god who will forgive your sins for free.
Something tells me that 1.6 billion number would go down drastically if you exclude Muslims who were born and raised in Muslim countries and taught the ideology from birth. OTOH, you have people coming to Christ from all ages, even Muslims converting to Christianity. I rarely hear of Christians converting to Muslim.
But you're right. There is a degree of faith involved. Kinda like having the faith that your spouse or parents won't murder you in your sleep.
Deep down I know there is no omniscient, omnipotent, anthropological yet invisible entity that exists. Nor is there any evidence that has ever been presented by you or anyone else that suggests otherwise. Fundies keep skirt around the issue, but cannot produce any evidence at all.
Can you?
You mean evidence that is completely skeptic proof, that can not be called into doubt from any aspect? Not going to happen. But then again, there is NOTHING on this earth that you can proof 100% with such extreme requirements.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,925,051 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
You mean evidence that is completely skeptic proof, that can not be called into doubt from any aspect? Not going to happen. But then again, there is NOTHING on this earth that you can proof 100% with such extreme requirements.
ahhh..... but Jeff, some of us who have been around for a while remember you saying you had 100 proofs that a god existed, and then refused to post even one.
Now is your chance to do so. Come on, be a man. Show us what you got.
Only because you don't want to listen.............or look. There are a gazillion conversions in both directions. Fortunately there are many who are converting from both religions to a position of non belief.
Non believers don't have to take sides in your crusades or their jihads.
Something tells me that 1.6 billion number would go down drastically if you exclude Muslims who were born and raised in Muslim countries and taught the ideology from birth. OTOH, you have people coming to Christ from all ages, even Muslims converting to Christianity. I rarely hear of Christians converting to Muslim.
But you're right. There is a degree of faith involved. Kinda like having the faith that your spouse or parents won't murder you in your sleep.
Something tells me that the number of Christians would go down dramatically if you exclude Christians who were born and raised in Christian majority countries and taught the ideology from birth. Do you not get that most people who are religious were raised that way and taught it from the beginning of their life? That goes for all religions.
Do you honestly not see this, or are you being obtuse on purpose?
Something tells me that the number of Christians would go down dramatically if you exclude Christians who were born and raised in Christian majority countries and taught the ideology from birth. Do you not get that most people who are religious were raised that way and taught it from the beginning of their life? That goes for all religions.
Do you honestly not see this, or are you being obtuse on purpose?
You mean in countries like China and South Korea? Because they are such Christian majority countries, right?
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