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Old 11-29-2015, 04:02 PM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,605,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Jeff,

No amount of evidence would convince you.

When no evidence trumps imperfect evidence, all reason has already been cast to the winds.
The argument you make could be used for the issue of Deities existing.
You want "no evidence" (the Atheist claim about Deities)...to trump imperfect evidence (perception, intuition, writings, stories, etc) to dismiss what the Religious believe to be true.

I happen to have full faith in my certain belief that Evolutionary Theory is accurate...even though the evidence isn't perfect. The Religious believe the same about Deities.

The argument you make here is contradictory to standard arguments for Atheism.
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Old 11-29-2015, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,542 posts, read 4,067,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Sorry, I don't buy that argument for a second. Why would evolution take away superior traits and give us something unique, the human brain in replacement. Why not a superior brain while keeping the superior traits?

Then evolution should have given human like brains to other species line. Why only pick the primate line?
Your statement that God is an awful designer only points to skeptic's arrogance. You can't claim the bad design argument unless you believe that science understands every single thing about the human body. It doesn't. It doesn't understand consciouness. It doesn't understand the placebo effect. Why are some people left handed? It can't even figure out exactly why I have tinnitus. It's quite possible that there is a practical reason for the design of testicles that science hasn't figured out yet.

From a survival aspect compared to our evolutionary ancestors, human beings are pathetic. We are weaker and more susceptible to disease. From a designer perspective, we are uniquely different from animals, designed for reasoning, to create, and to love and experience physical intimacy.
You're making the assumption that evolution exists to A) create perfect beings or B) create humans. Neither is the case.

First of all, what constitutes as superior is entirely subjective. A polar bear is substantially better at surviving in the arctic that humans are but humans are reasonably well fit to survive in the Savannah's of Africa, a place in which a polar bear would not do too well.

What makes humans unique is our brains. It's a strength, but also a weakness. Human infants are basically worthless becasue the brain is not even close to being done developing upon birth. Most species are capable of walking when born. Just to put that in perspective. Our brain isn't necessarily all good. It comes with consequences. But that's nature.

And science does know why testicles are the way they are. Human sperm needs to be kept at a slightly lower temperature than the human body naturally is, so they're kept outside of the body. My point wasn't that testicles are inefficient; they're fine. My point was that an intelligent designer probably could have made them more effective, or at least made more resilient sperm for humans.

But hell, even then, absolutely no evidence exists to suggest intelligent design is anything but a hope. Now, I don't really care if you believe in God. That's fine. Many people do. But many of those people also believe in evolution. Now, when it comes down to you individually, I really don't care if you believe in evolution or not, but it does become important to me when people who don't believe in evolution start suppressing their children's education or getting involved in school boards. If the creationists got what they want, a side effect would be a generation of scientifically illiterate people. This will put us back decades. We can't have that, and this effects you too. Evolution is the basis of modern biology, which bleeds into numerous fields, including medical science. What happens when the generation of scientifically illiterate doctors can do nothing to to prevent a mutated disease that is rapidly spreading?

I'll say this one more time; a species that is bad at surviving does not create 7 billion people all around the world. Evolution is dependent on survival, and humans sure as hell survived.
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Old 11-29-2015, 04:33 PM
 
412 posts, read 448,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecheese View Post
In the male of the species the penis is also outside the body!
Not always. Sometimes it can be found in someo..
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Old 11-29-2015, 04:35 PM
 
19,639 posts, read 9,960,197 times
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I salute you guys for having the balls to discuss this topic.
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Old 11-29-2015, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY 🇺🇸
36,754 posts, read 14,710,354 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
If you are interested in what is known or non known about the evolution of primate testicles, you should Google it. I didn't address the issue and don't claim to know anything about it other than that I am here and have a pair.

Do you have anything on offer other than various arguments from incredulity, such as actual citations, facts, or rational arguments?



Interesting how the usual suspects keep finding their way to the Religion and Spirituality thread. They just can't stay away.

The Atheist thread is thataway.
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:34 PM
 
10,068 posts, read 5,678,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
You're making the assumption that evolution exists to A) create perfect beings or B) create humans. Neither is the case.

First of all, what constitutes as superior is entirely subjective. A polar bear is substantially better at surviving in the arctic that humans are but humans are reasonably well fit to survive in the Savannah's of Africa, a place in which a polar bear would not do too well.
No I'm making the assumption that natural selection should retain the advantageous traits, not discard them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post

What makes humans unique is our brains. It's a strength, but also a weakness. Human infants are basically worthless becasue the brain is not even close to being done developing upon birth. Most species are capable of walking when born. Just to put that in perspective. Our brain isn't necessarily all good. It comes with consequences. But that's nature.
Most species are not self sufficient at birth. A baby is still given the required knowledge and ability to survive. It knows immediately to cry whenever there is a need and keep crying until that need is met.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post

And science does know why testicles are the way they are. Human sperm needs to be kept at a slightly lower temperature than the human body naturally is, so they're kept outside of the body. My point wasn't that testicles are inefficient; they're fine. My point was that an intelligent designer probably could have made them more effective, or at least made more resilient sperm for humans.
No, science knows one aspect which you mentioned. It's quite possible that there is another function to the testicles that science has not unraveled. Are do you believe science is not self correcting and has achieved absolute knowledge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post

But hell, even then, absolutely no evidence exists to suggest intelligent design is anything but a hope. Now, I don't really care if you believe in God. That's fine. Many people do. But many of those people also believe in evolution. Now, when it comes down to you individually, I really don't care if you believe in evolution or not,
If you didn't care, you wouldnt have taken time to write this post.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post

but it does become important to me when people who don't believe in evolution start suppressing their children's education or getting involved in school boards. If the creationists got what they want, a side effect would be a generation of scientifically illiterate people. This will put us back decades. We can't have that, and this effects you too. Evolution is the basis of modern biology, which bleeds into numerous fields, including medical science. What happens when the generation of scientifically illiterate doctors can do nothing to to prevent a mutated disease that is rapidly spreading?
Are you really suggesting that a scientist must believe that we evolved from apes to understand mutating viruses? I don't give a rip if your side says there is no difference between macro and micro evolution. There is. One is observable. We can't observe primates morphing into humans unless you have a time machine. Got one handy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post

I'll say this one more time; a species that is bad at surviving does not create 7 billion people all around the world. Evolution is dependent on survival, and humans sure as hell survived.
Then human beings do quite well with exposed testicles and your other design flaws.
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Old 11-29-2015, 06:29 PM
 
1,615 posts, read 1,629,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecheese View Post
In the male of the species the penis is also outside the body!
Actually all the good stuff on men and women start on the outside.
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Old 11-29-2015, 07:26 PM
 
6,115 posts, read 3,047,750 times
Reputation: 2405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
I salute you guys for having the balls to discuss this topic.
You would have not said this if we were birds, Rhinos or elephants.
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Old 11-29-2015, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
9,455 posts, read 12,468,523 times
Reputation: 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
However, the penis is not so sensitive to temperature that it will not function properly. The testicles have a very very narrow range within which they will produce sperm, where is the penis works just fine in a wide temperature range. It is designed for purpose just fine.
Either you are not a male or are not aware of the effect of swimming in cold water. Usually one's testicles live in controlled environment, be it a loin cloth or tightey whiteys.

Regardless, your premise proves nothing beyond the fact that testicles exist outside of the body. Perhaps it allows a touch point for females. Which many would find a good idea. So says my wife.
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Old 11-29-2015, 08:03 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,468,985 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
Then use Google Scholar. It only provides peer reviewed sources if it's a higher standard of validity you're after.



There are more humans than any other ape. Obviously, we aren't that bad at surviving.

The human brain is the primary human trait that put them above other animals. We were smart enough to know that shoes would help us and how to construct them. We knew how to build tools to aid our survival, and thus humans with more limber hands survived.

The beauty of your argument however also implies and inept creator. God is awful at making things if humans are indeed as pathetic as you claim them to be. Which is odd, because I'm guessing you would never use this train of thought against your own argument, and therefore are a hypocrite, and I'm sure you know how Jesus felt about them.



Yeah, temperature is an issue for the sperm. That's the point. If an all powerful deity is making things, why make them in a less effective manner. Testicles are weak and fragile. If leaving the testicles in a state of vulnerability is necessary to keep sperm alive, this begs the question why this mastermind "intelligent" designer didn't just make heat resistant sperm, or at least sperm that can survive inside the body?

Let's do a comparison that creationists love doing. A human inventor is building a smart computer. It can transfer data through microchips attacked to a USB into a regular computer and give it a full upgrade. Sort of like reproduction. But, the microchip has a flaw. It cannot be contained in any material, as it needs constant access to air and sunlight to survive. Thus, it's exposed to other elements, like rain, which would short circuit the microchip. Would you not call this inventor bad at his job for not attempting to build a better microchip, especially since he's almost certainly capable?
yeah, I think they have this omni dude all wrong. Why do they need an omni dude anyway? why can't he just be a dude? I think they need this omni dude string to hold their mind together myself.
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