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Okay, suppose you said something really nasty about a co-worker which destroyed their standing with the company. Just forgiving yourself for doing such a thing does not help that co-worker one bit.
The thing is, I wouldn't do that. But if I did, I would admit what I said to my co-worker and let everyone know that I lied. I would try to fix whatever I did.
When I forgive myself I am coming from the point-of-view of a child who was blamed for everything that went wrong in the family. I was considered the ultimate sinner. These thoughts left me unable to form relationships as a young adult.
The thing is, I wouldn't do that. But if I did, I would admit what I said to my co-worker and let everyone know that I lied. I would try to fix whatever I did.
When I forgive myself I am coming from the point-of-view of a child who was blamed for everything that went wrong in the family. I was considered the ultimate sinner. These thoughts left me unable to form relationships as a young adult.
Okay, but I am just curious, why would you forgive yourself? To me that is like saying "I forgive myself for being an a_hole because it wasn't my fault to begin with." Why wouldn't you ask the one offended for forgiveness?
Okay, but I am just curious, why would you forgive yourself? To me that is like saying "I forgive myself for being an a_hole because it wasn't my fault to begin with." Why wouldn't you ask the one offended for forgiveness?
For me, the key thing is to no longer assign fault but to accept what is done is done, and to move forward with different expectations.
Anyway, to bring this back to the topic of the thread, I don't think there is some grand scheme that God has for us that must involve evil. We really don't need his involvement. We do just fine bringing evil into the world without a god.
For me, the key thing is to no longer assign fault but to accept what is done is done, and to move forward with different expectations.
Anyway, to bring this back to the topic of the thread, I don't think there is some grand scheme that God has for us that must involve evil. We really don't need his involvement. We do just fine bringing evil into the world without a god.
God created us perfectly imperfect works in progress - and STILL "saw that it was GOoD."
How is it that we thrive - how do our muscles continue to be strong?
Opposition - gravity specifically.
Without gravity, astronauts' muscles atrophy.
Similarly, spiritually, we NEED challenge.
I believe that God is not as simple as we may have thought.
God is ALL - everything. Ultimately, God is GOoD - but in our short-sighted perspectives, some things happen that make us think God is not good.
Evil is not imperfection.
Imperfection keeps us challenged - humbled - and progressing. God is love - a process.
Evil is the attempt to shift blame and response-ability - which damns us (holds us back) because if we don't acknowledge our own imperfection, how can we overcome and become stronger?
God created us perfectly imperfect works in progress - and STILL "saw that it was GOoD."
How is it that we thrive - how do our muscles continue to be strong?
Opposition - gravity specifically.
Without gravity, astronauts' muscles atrophy.
Similarly, spiritually, we NEED challenge.
I believe that God is not as simple as we may have thought.
God is ALL - everything. Ultimately, God is GOoD - but in our short-sighted perspectives, some things happen that make us think God is not good.
Evil is not imperfection.
Imperfection keeps us challenged - humbled - and progressing. God is love - a process.
Evil is the attempt to shift blame and response-ability - which damns us (holds us back) because if we don't acknowledge our own imperfection, how can we overcome and become stronger?
Hello. Thank you for responding to my post. I felt that I was getting way off topic. I agree with you about shifting blame, which I have managed to stop doing.
I like how you separated evil and imperfection. I still find a person can accomplish progression without the knowledge of Christianity. Do you believe in Jesus?
For me, the key thing is to no longer assign fault but to accept what is done is done, and to move forward with different expectations.
Anyway, to bring this back to the topic of the thread, I don't think there is some grand scheme that God has for us that must involve evil. We really don't need his involvement. We do just fine bringing evil into the world without a god.
Anything that is created has to have a purpose. Since God created evil, He said so Himself, there has to be a logical reason for it to be here. If it crept in without His knowledge, how can we be assured He will eventually rid the universe of it? Since He created evil, it has a purpose. Once evil is no longer needed, once humans have learned the lesson of the knowledge of good and evil, evil will be done away. Once all mankind are saved and brought into a relationship of peace with God, evil will no longer be needed.
Humans didn't bring evil into the world, God did.
We do need His involvement in evil. If He is not in control of evil then evil is out of His control. If it is out of His control then He is no longer God.
We are assured that God is working all together for good.
Christ came to undo the works of the Adversary. Once they are undone completely, evil will vanish like fog before the warm sun.
. Once all mankind are saved and brought into a relationship of peace with God, evil will no longer be needed.
It is this that makes me assured that God cannot rid the world of evil and, so for me, he did not bring it into this world.
Let's go back to your illustrations with the fourth wise man and his fruitcake. Based upon my upbringing and the knowledge I had, I would be the one who brought the "fruitcake" even though I was a practicing Christian. I truly did not know better yet would be denied entry into heaven because of what I didn't know.
Your response to me that you no longer go to a traditional church but instead attend Bible studies in homes is an indication of how much you have learned about Christ and God. I cannot reach what you know unless I have taken the same steps. You cannot understand my progress unless you have taken the same steps. Can we be assured that what we know and understand about God and Christianity is the same way? Can I be assured that I am not bringing fruitcake? No.
If I claim I love Jesus, I will be honest, it is because I wouldn't want to go to hell. Who wants to do that?
I do not think it possible for all people in the world to know God the way Christianity intends us to.
It is this that makes me assured that God cannot rid the world of evil and, so for me, he did not bring it into this world.
Let's go back to your illustrations with the fourth wise man and his fruitcake. Based upon my upbringing and the knowledge I had, I would be the one who brought the "fruitcake" even though I was a practicing Christian. I truly did not know better yet would be denied entry into heaven because of what I didn't know.
Your response to me that you no longer go to a traditional church but instead attend Bible studies in homes is an indication of how much you have learned about Christ and God. I cannot reach what you know unless I have taken the same steps. You cannot understand my progress unless you have taken the same steps. Can we be assured that what we know and understand about God and Christianity is the same way? Can I be assured that I am not bringing fruitcake? No.
If I claim I love Jesus, I will be honest, it is because I wouldn't want to go to hell. Who wants to do that?
I do not think it possible for all people in the world to know God the way Christianity intends us to.
It is not God's intention that, in this life, the world is to know God the way true Christianity knows God. "The world lies in the lap of the wicked one" is so to keep people in darkness. That too is part of the evil. God also created humanity flesh. knowing full well in advance that the flesh cannot please Him. He also purposely created humanity soulish knowing full well in advance that the soulish one is not able to receive that which is of the spirit of God. This way, the only way one can know God is if God unveils Himself to them through the evangel.
God has subjected the universe to vanity and corruption but with the goal that one day it will one day be freed from vanity and corruption and be brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
I don't love God as a form of fire insurance. In fact, no one goes to the so-called "hell" for not believing in Christ or God. Why would God do that since no one can believe unless God gives it to them to believe?
Your not believing that God brought evil into the world and will one day rid the world of it does not make that truth a falsehood.
It is not God's intention that, in this life, the world is to know God the way true Christianity knows God. "The world lies in the lap of the wicked one" is so to keep people in darkness. That too is part of the evil. God also created humanity flesh. knowing full well in advance that the flesh cannot please Him. He also purposely created humanity soulish knowing full well in advance that the soulish one is not able to receive that which is of the spirit of God. This way, the only way one can know God is if God unveils Himself to them through the evangel.
God has subjected the universe to vanity and corruption but with the goal that one day it will one day be freed from vanity and corruption and be brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
I don't love God as a form of fire insurance. In fact, no one goes to the so-called "hell" for not believing in Christ or God. Why would God do that since no one can believe unless God gives it to them to believe?
Your not believing that God brought evil into the world and will one day rid the world of it does not make that truth a falsehood.
It was nice sharing thoughts with you, Eusebius. Thank you for taking the time to comment. I hope you have a Merry Christmas!
It was nice sharing thoughts with you, Eusebius. Thank you for taking the time to comment. I hope you have a Merry Christmas!
Thanks elyn02, I also appreciate your thoughts. I too hope you have a Merry Christmas!
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