Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I love the axiomatic accusation of your arguments as 'Eusebian' (the ultimate put -down). Even more, the evidence of the nuns from hell being assigned to catholic schools..thus proving that they were all little saints. Just as Priests being reassigned to other parishes shows that they couldn't be any kind of wrongdoer.
The thinking of your critic is well meaning, but the laudable effort to give the other side is tipped over into bias by some kind of urge to defend religion.
they are right cupper (Dew and Mystic and Jerz and Warden)
you have become that which you attack
that which you focus on you become
right before our very eyes
Ta! In addition to every false and crummy apologetics argument in the book: (1) special pleading, accusations of bias, look on the positve side, let's draw a line under it and move on..it is the Bloody VATICAN, dredging her smelly corpse up and wanting to dress it up as a saint, otherwise there wouldn't be this thread...we have the
presentation of
crummy argument
in scriptural form
to make it seem
persuasive.
Bad habit.
(1) except 'It's Christmas..what about some seasonal charity? Ccan't leave that one out as the Vatican are probably banking on the timing to slip this one through unchallenged.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-22-2015 at 07:09 AM..
There have been numerous posts on this forum from non-Catholic fundamentalists who believe living in want and suffering (especially while dying) is a virtue.
It's hardly something only Catholics believe. In fact.... I've yet to read a post from a Catholic saying, "My old granny was riddled with cancer and refused pain medication because she wanted to suffer like the Lord suffered on the cross. We read the Bible to her instead." I have read that story from a Bible believing CD fundamentalist.
Yes that pernicious notion exists outside of Catholicism too and I address it there when I see it. But we are discussion a very conservative Catholic nun here, not a liberal Catholic or Protestant.
It was obvious long ago. I noted it many, many times.
Some people are just dark and miserable...that is how they are.
Thanks Gldnrule. Your post will show to my pal Tzaph (who I admire and respect greatly) how his well - meaning but misguided defence of mother Thersa's memory (or the one that people want to have of her, and never mind the facts) becomes an attack on anyone putting the contrary view. Which gives people in your camp the excuse to leap out and stir in a bit of polemic poison to the personal jabbing.
... when I was 6 years old and said something happy about one of my dolls, and my father and brother exploded into rage (nothing new there) and shouted the doll is not real it's just a stupid hunk of cloth and yarn and it's not even a pretty doll it is fat and ugly and has a big green head. it must have been pretty bad because my mom spoke up and said that's enough, and she hardly ever spoke up, and they kept yelling "but it's the truth. it's a fact. it's not real. i am right. i am telling the truth."
it is a mean and cruel mindset that claims it is "telling the truth" when really it can not bear seeing goodness and kindness, and it seeks to destroy that joy and happiness and goodness by attacking.
It is one thing to allow a child to be a child and to enjoy harmless childhood fantasies. It is another for adults to engage in such fantasies, particularly when they are harmful ones such as that suffering makes you more like Jesus and the physical aspects of it at least should be permitted and encouraged, at least for those whom god has chosen as vessels of suffering.
I can give a free pass for someone doing actual good in the name of misguided notions, but I can't get past the denial of palliative care, decent sanitation, adequate staffing and not standing up to structural causes of the suffering, most spectacularly by accepting large donations from despots who obtained the money by stealing it from the poor and downtrodden in the first place. MT's vision was not to eradicate suffering but to facilitate physical suffering while providing kindness and very minimal and symbolic physical care. This was the consistent orientation of her ministry throughout her life. Yes she lived simply, and took some courageous stands, but her her courage was largely wasted on setting a terrible example of accepting suffering as a gift from god.
How dare you accuse me of not being able to bear seeing goodness and kindness when the utter merciless lack of goodness and kindness is what I actually can't bear? I don't seek to destroy real joy and happiness and goodness. Real joy and happiness and goodness is the birthright of every human being including those who died under MT's care -- and that is supposed to be okay somehow because she held their hand while they died. It would be like a child dying of cancer and their parents held their hand and told them in soothing tones that god approved of their misery and was about to receive them into glory, so who is to criticize those saintly and obviously loving parents for denying morphine and chemotherapy?
I don't fault people for excusing MT because they see what they WANT to see there. They do it in the same way that they WANT to see some vacuous celebrity as a role model and worthy of emulation, despite the celebrity being a vapid, self absorbed person who, despite the occasional contribution to charity, mostly leave a wake of human destruction and broken relationships as they pass. MT wore a sari and lived in poverty and spoke sweetly and we want to see saintliness where in fact there exists little more than deniable indifference to human suffering.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,916,433 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
It is one thing to allow a child to be a child and to enjoy harmless childhood fantasies. It is another for adults to engage in such fantasies, particularly when they are harmful ones such as that suffering makes you more like Jesus and the physical aspects of it at least should be permitted and encouraged, at least for those whom god has chosen as vessels of suffering.
I can give a free pass for someone doing actual good in the name of misguided notions, but I can't get past the denial of palliative care, decent sanitation, adequate staffing and not standing up to structural causes of the suffering, most spectacularly by accepting large donations from despots who obtained the money by stealing it from the poor and downtrodden in the first place. MT's vision was not to eradicate suffering but to facilitate physical suffering while providing kindness and very minimal and symbolic physical care. This was the consistent orientation of her ministry throughout her life. Yes she lived simply, and took some courageous stands, but her her courage was largely wasted on setting a terrible example of accepting suffering as a gift from god.
How dare you accuse me of not being able to bear seeing goodness and kindness when the utter merciless lack of goodness and kindness is what I actually can't bear? I don't seek to destroy real joy and happiness and goodness. Real joy and happiness and goodness is the birthright of every human being including those who died under MT's care -- and that is supposed to be okay somehow because she held their hand while they died. It would be like a child dying of cancer and their parents held their hand and told them in soothing tones that god approved of their misery and was about to receive them into glory, so who is to criticize those saintly and obviously loving parents for denying morphine and chemotherapy?
I don't fault people for excusing MT because they see what they WANT to see there. They do it in the same way that they WANT to see some vacuous celebrity as a role model and worthy of emulation, despite the celebrity being a vapid, self absorbed person who, despite the occasional contribution to charity, mostly leave a wake of human destruction and broken relationships as they pass. MT wore a sari and lived in poverty and spoke sweetly and we want to see saintliness where in fact there exists little more than deniable indifference to human suffering.
Once again, to soon etc.
You stated this much better than my sometimes brute force.
Thanks Gldnrule. Your post will show to my pal Tzaph (who I admire and respect greatly) how his well - meaning but misguided defence of mother Thersa's memory (or the one that people want to have of her, and never mind the facts) becomes an attack on anyone putting the contrary view. Which gives people in your camp the excuse to leap out and stir in a bit of polemic poison to the personal jabbing.
I sympathize with those afflicted with Godophobia and Religitosis...but the symptoms of those afflictions (constant and persistent bashing, insulting, and mocking of anything God related) puts out a very negative vibe.
I sympathize with those afflicted with Godophobia and Religitosis...but the symptoms of those afflictions (constant and persistent bashing, insulting, and mocking of anything God related) puts out a very negative vibe.
It highlights an unpleasant truth that people prefer to avoid. Doing so can come from either a good place or a bad place in a person ... but if you mistake it for fault-finding when it's not then you are just shooting the messenger. Many of us, particularly from the midwestern US, have had it drummed into us that "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything" and "go along to get along". I lived that way for much of my adult life and it did me and others no favors. If I can't speak out against something in an open discussion forum where supposedly people come for substantive debate, then I have made no progress against the often lamentable status quo that I facilitated for most of my life.
I take no pleasure, covert or otherwise, in voicing my objections to the careless veneration of MT. It would give me pleasure if she were a laudable and effective example of through-and-through kindness. It depresses me that she is not but is seen as if she were.
I sympathize with those afflicted with Godophobia and Religitosis...but the symptoms of those afflictions (constant and persistent bashing, insulting, and mocking of anything God related) puts out a very negative vibe.
Yeah, yea..the old flaming and potKettle projection from one who has been sussed, filletted, exposed and discredited. have a nice Christmas.
stick with the Intro..which is to reason they get onto the subject, not a programme to set out to bash the woman.
Look, folks. It is sometimes tough to see Florence Nightingale, Isaac Newton, Henry VIII and even the Peer himself get their reputations tarnished, but I take it in the interests of truth. Catholic saints -in -waiting can expect the same treatment.
You bet I slam Mother Teresa. She scammed most the world in believing she was an instrument of good, when really she was an instrument of evil.
Did you actually read the academic paper that I posted?
Honestly, it doesn't affect me if the RCC wants to elevate her to saint status. They are not trying to free her from criminal charges. If I was a practicing Catholic, I would ignore your outrage.
However, I left the Catholic church for my own reasons so finding out that MT may have had questionable practices does not make me feel even more validated for leaving the church. It is like any other organization out there where their fundamental policies or values do not align with mine.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
