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Not Supposed to bother you, but me thinks it does. Your posts seem to have a problem with anyone not living according to your interpretation of the Bible.
Which would put me in a higher class all together....Atheists who attend Midnight Mass and Celebrate the mythology of Christmas....
You think this is another attack on Christmas. I just asked a question & get all fussy about it. But hey carry on.
We all know that like all holidays Christmas is a copy of another Pagan holiday. But celebrating Jesus time of birth isn't biblical. No where in the bible say to celebrate it So why? Yes, he was brought gifts at his birth but again it's not biblical. So why??
Good point.
It's written that Jesus ONLY spoke in parables - that was how he taught.
Many people take every story in the bible, especially the story of Jesus' birth very literally, rather than as a symbolic spiritual lesson.
From what I gather of Jesus, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would tell about his birth, just so we'd know and could celebrate it. He'd tell about it because there are some spiritual truths - wisdom he was trying to teach.
How can you benefit spiritually from symbolic teachings, if you take them literally?
You can't. You miss the mark, if you're looking for his-story in spiritual stories.
I can't say exactly what symbols could stand for - many possibilities...
Maybe...
Star: Light of Christ, God's enlightenment that brings that which is dark/hidden to light
Baby Jesus: Our own births - physically and spiritually (born of mother's water and the spirit)
Wise men of the East: Buddhism, Taoism and other wisdom from religions east of Israel (in Asia and eastern middle east)
It may also have something to do with the wisdom that comes from the east - with each new sunrise.
Being taxed: Opposition in all things - we pay, but are rewarded/strengthened
Mary's labor: the labor our own mother's endure to give birth, also spiritual labor and resulting joy
Shepherds: Those who look after others (sheep)
Angels: spiritual help we receive - we probably all have more than we know!
Ultimately, all parables and teachings of his are based on love... love for GOoD, love for others and love for self... "one these 2 commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
So, the Christ-mas spirit inspires people to love - which is a good thing, don't you think?
Last edited by SuperSoul; 12-23-2015 at 08:38 PM..
No where does it say that we are to exchange gifts.
But we do, in western society, for all manner of occasions, especially birthdays.
We do, in western society, engage in probably dozens (or more) of actions, little and large, that would have been unheard of in the Middle East during the Bronze Age.
If you are a purist and wish to live as Jews did during the first century AD, you are free to, but unless you're already engaging in this practice it makes little sense for you to argue how "unbiblical" giving gifts is on Christmas, or on any day.
I see using "the magi did it" as kind of a silly excuse to be "allowed" to give gifts, so anyone who wants to give them, should, and should just own that. As someone above said, it's fun. And it's very, very cultural. We give little things all the time for all sorts of celebrations and occasions. If the idea is that Christmas itself is excessive on gifts as opposed to other times of the year (and for many many people, it is), fine, give fewer gifts, or don't give any. Do as you'd like but nobody needs "support" (i.e. the magi bringing their gifts) in order to be allowed to exchange gifts on Christmas, IMO. Just do it - again, because it's fun and has become traditional and feels wonderful. You don't need the Bible to sanction you to do it. If you needed the Bible to sanction your every move you sure wouldn't be consorting with total strangers via the internet right now.
I don't give gifts for Christmas. I let Santa do that. Don't believe in Santa? Fine. That doesn't mean he doesn't exist. He does and he is taking names. All atheists are not even on his naughty or nice list. Why? Because you have to believe in Santa. If you don't believe in him then he doesn't exist to you and therefore you have to go out and buy the gifts yourself. This is why I never have to buy gifts. It is just that simple. Believe and he comes down the chimney and gifts appear under the tree. If you don't have a chimney, he will still find a way to get those gifts under the tree. Leave cookies and milk for him and next year he will remember that and bring nicer gifts. Yea, it is a form of bribery but, hey, whatever works, right? One time I left a Rolex watch for him. He remembered that and the next year I got a Lamborghini. How he got that under the tree is not for me to know. We had to cut a huge hole in the living room wall just to get the car out of the house and build a ramp to get it down to the yard. I sold the car. Next year I will leave that money for him and will see what I get. Yea, I've been on the nice list since I was a very small child. You should try being nice. This is what Christmas is all about--what I can get, not what I can give.
Merry Christmas! There I said it! Yes, Merry Christmas! :-)
We all know that like all holidays Christmas is a copy of another Pagan holiday. But celebrating Jesus time of birth isn't biblical. No where in the bible say to celebrate it So why? Yes, he was brought gifts at his birth but again it's not biblical. So why??
Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067
You think this is another attack on Christmas. I just asked a question & get all fussy about it. But hey carry on.
You already KNOW the answer to the question, so people are confused as to why you keep asking it. You are a bit young for onset of dementia.
A lot of Christianity is tradition, not just what's in the bible. Observance of the birth of Christ is one of those non-biblical traditions. Bam, that's the answer.
My question to you is, why, as a pagan, do you seek at Yule to dishonor the memory of your ancestors, many of whom were of the Christian faith and observed those traditions, by asking questions that appear designed to disparage those ancestors' beliefs and practices? You already know the answer, as I said above, so yes, it does seem as if you are doing a bit more than just "asking questions".
We all know that like all holidays Christmas is a copy of another Pagan holiday. But celebrating Jesus time of birth isn't biblical. No where in the bible say to celebrate it So why? Yes, he was brought gifts at his birth but again it's not biblical. So why??
I would never assume that anyone cares what the Bible says anymore. I certainly do not live my life based on it, and would celebrate anything as I feel so moved, regardless of what some book says.
Why must everyone be expected to follow a certain book or even worse, someone else's interpretation of that same book ?
I would never assume that anyone cares what the Bible says anymore. I certainly do not live my life based on it, and would celebrate anything as I feel so moved, regardless of what some book says.
Why must everyone be expected to follow a certain book or even worse, someone else's interpretation of that same book ?
It's a debate forum that's all, yes, everyone has their version of the bible & that's fine too. Some who follow the bible biblically & some do not. This was obviously for those that do even though I would suspect that even they tend to bend a bit.
You already KNOW the answer to the question, so people are confused as to why you keep asking it. You are a bit young for onset of dementia.
A lot of Christianity is tradition, not just what's in the bible. Observance of the birth of Christ is one of those non-biblical traditions. Bam, that's the answer.
My question to you is, why, as a pagan, do you seek at Yule to dishonor the memory of your ancestors, many of whom were of the Christian faith and observed those traditions, by asking questions that appear designed to disparage those ancestors' beliefs and practices? You already know the answer, as I said above, so yes, it does seem as if you are doing a bit more than just "asking questions".
Have a Merry Yule.
Just a friendly debate that's all. If someone takes in the wrong way I can't help it. I don't dishonor them this has nothing to do with them. I was just wonder where they got the idea from. Hence why I asked about the wise men & odds are they just took that as a sign that they should.
Well, I wouldn't call this a debate forum, but rather a discussion forum, although debates do break out, as we know.
Maybe just be more specific next time as to who exactly you are addressing and clarify whatever point you are trying to make.
Anyway, enjoy the holiday however you observe it!
ETA: You didn't really ask why gifts are given in your OP, but that is a fairly recent practice. People in the middle ages weren't giving one another Christmas presents. It was a feast.
Out of the feasting came the tradition of the poor begging for food at Christmas from those wealthy partiers. Only 200 years ago or so did people start giving sweets or toys to children for Christmas. And in The Netherlands, St. Nicholas, who turned into the American Santa, comes on December 5th with presents, not on Christmas.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 12-24-2015 at 01:08 PM..
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I just asked a question & get all fussy about it. But hey carry on.
