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I haven’t been following this thread so I don’t know if you are still around. But my .02 is that many of us offer advice and counsel (whether it be religious or not) when it hasn’t been asked for. Sometimes, maybe most times, people just want to vent to someone who will compassionately listen, not be told how they should fix things. That’s something I need to learn myself. So instead of thinking you need to tell someone to trust God and pray, just listen. If they want your opinion they will ask for it.
I just don't understand why we cannot tell people about how good God is and how he can help people who have a relationship with him without people saying we are cramming our beliefs down their throat. Christians just want to help. I think some go overboard but if a person has a rough time in their life I try to tell them to pray and trust God. Nowadays, you can't even go public with your beliefs yet it is ok for people to say that they don't believe in God. This is why I am scared to try to convince people to come to God. Folks get so upset.
I'm always bewildered by this 'not allowed' claim. Religious preaching is as free and untrammelled as ever it was. They have books, videos, DVD's and radio and TV Channels. That's quite outside more churches and megachurches, talks and lectures than I've had not dinners.
I suspect that what we are hearing is:
"Why can't it be like it was in the good old days, when we could preach whatever we liked without anyone calling us on it, questioning us or disagreeing, and anyone who did would be shouted down, shut out of society, sacked, shunned and told by a president that we were not fit to be citizens."
You want to know about persecution? Ask an atheist. We know all about it.
Indeed. That post must have taken such significant effort to proselytize the board to how you feel about their claims.
Did you notice what you did. You just proselytized your viewpoint but it is different because it is protected speeches.
I never said there's anything wrong with proselytization as such, the problem is the way it's gone about.
I'm not threatening anyone with eternal perdition if they don't disbelieve as I do. I'm not suggesting you're wicked because of what you believe. You can choose to believe in your deity of choice and nothing bad will happen to you whatsoever, other than that you'll believe unsupportable things and make unsupportable claims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion Rules
Ultimately the problem with proselytizers is that they have a highly inflated notion of the reality and demonstrability of their truth-claims."
And yours isn't making more claims that deserve to be shunned, ridiculed, spit upon, torn out, stepped on, spated upon, it is just Christians.
It's never the Atheists, they're the best ones.
False equivalence. See above. Nice try though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion Rules
'He does not exist, just get over yourselves'.
Don't worry, the bridge is out, take notice.
Don't worry when you fall it all will be fine.
'But what's that about, please say it, tell me'.
Too late, you got your way, all yours so like.
'But if you knew the future, would you say it.'
No, you're a waste of time, do the crime, pay it.
'Huh, what's that mean, you are making sentence.'
Ya, get over it. Tough call, you're so tough, repent.
Bye, have fun, you enjoyed your life, but you've lost.
Yes. It's forever the stuff they accuse us of doing. Mocking, jeering, just saying 'You're wrong'. No argument. no case, no nothing.
It is sad that everyone misunderstands what is being said. There is no need for them to condemn anyone if they understood what was being said, but I believe it was always meant to be missunderstood if the only reason was to keep the population down because that is what Christianity accomplished, just thank God they aren't torturing your children in front of your eyes making you admit the demon that you are bro, they might just have to cut you to save your soul, see, it's a salvation when Christians loved you enough to cut you.
I don't thank God, or even random Facotrs. I thank a hard -won secular -humanists society that by and large doesn't allow it.
Yeah but you couldn't have that over night lest we forget who the crazies really are. You take God away from me, and you don't even want to consider what would be left behind. Truth is, MOST PEOPLE need guidance that only a belief in God can bring, and it doesn't matter whether there is a God or not, they simply need there to be. But I got your 6 when it comes to people shoving their religion down your throat, I am not with those people either. There needs to be freedom.
I don't thank God, or even random Facotrs. I thank a hard -won secular -humanists society that by and large doesn't allow it.
This is the reason I feel close to atheists even though I'm not one.
When humanity is the concern, most atheists I know are like Epicurus and Lucretius. Gods may exist; gods may influence human affairs. In the end, it's still up to us to provide shelter, love, and acceptance to each other. I believe that is our shared destiny. God or no god and karma or no karma don't matter.
I just don't understand why we cannot tell people about how good God is and how he can help people who have a relationship with him without people saying we are cramming our beliefs down their throat. Christians just want to help. I think some go overboard but if a person has a rough time in their life I try to tell them to pray and trust God. Nowadays, you can't even go public with your beliefs yet it is ok for people to say that they don't believe in God. This is why I am scared to try to convince people to come to God. Folks get so upset.
You are "allowed" to say what you need to say. What can't be guaranteed is the reaction from other people. I think you need really tough skin if this is your contribution to society, which is full of different personalities.
Yeah but you couldn't have that over night lest we forget who the crazies really are. You take God away from me, and you don't even want to consider what would be left behind. Truth is, MOST PEOPLE need guidance that only a belief in God can bring, and it doesn't matter whether there is a God or not, they simply need there to be. But I got your 6 when it comes to people shoving their religion down your throat, I am not with those people either. There needs to be freedom.
How can I ever take God away from you? If you have faith, you have it. If you want to ignore the arguments against God you can. It's blind faith, but I can't take that away from you. If the evidence is too good and you are feeling your Faith wobble, you can go away and not listen. Nobody can take God away from you, but yourself, listening to how the evidence is all against a god and none for.
And I'm sorry if that hurts, but the truth is important, and we can't ignore it just because it may upset you. To do so would mean that you are playing the "Respect" card to take Truth away from me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by khminh
This is the reason I feel close to atheists even though I'm not one.
When humanity is the concern, most atheists I know are like Epicurus and Lucretius. Gods may exist; gods may influence human affairs. In the end, it's still up to us to provide shelter, love, and acceptance to each other. I believe that is our shared destiny. God or no god and karma or no karma don't matter.
You are not the only Theist who feels at ease with atheism. Troutdude is the oil-painting example of a Theist I could share a flat with. He accepts the evidence but believes in a sorta god (but not Biblegod) on Faith, and he admits it's faith and not on too much evidence, and I happily accept that, because I am an agnostic atheist and I know that I don't know for sure.
Evidence will only take you so far, but I follow it as far as I can and keep pushing. It is those who refuse to listen, keep trying to argue the evidence down with false or fallacious arguments or trying to silence us one way or the other who are the problem.
I can relate to religions in various ways, mainly through the art they produced. I still feel very close to Buddhism, even though I can't believe it anymore (because Karma only works if it is an intelligent deity with the [indepentent/intrinsic] power of judgement - which of course makes Buddhism a theistic religion, even if none of them seem to realize it), but that only makes it the best of a bad bunch. That's why I opt for secular humanism, no contest. Rather as Churchill said (more or less) of democracy -"it is the worst form of government you can have - apart from all the others".
.....
He said it (House of Commons, 11 November 1947)—but he was quoting an unknown predecessor. From Churchill by Himself, 574:
Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-07-2017 at 04:01 AM..
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