Here We Go Again -- Another Pervy Pastor (atheist, priests, Holy Spirit)
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When you have preconditions like that set up, also putting a man on a pedestal by making him the Telephone To God, you are also setting up perfect ground for those more selfishly inclined to go unquestioned. To hide in the Light, basically.
In fact your Average Pastor is involved in Shepherding lives, right? Steering them. Like they are all sheep and he is the one with the Big Stick. Who WANTS that responsibility?
Im only surprised we aren't hearing more stories like this.
Isolated incident! Seriously? Here is a partial list of scandals, only including American evangelist scandals. Pedophile priests aren't even mentioned. This is only a partial list, because the last time I tried to post the entire list I got busted by the mods.
Wikipedia
List Of Christian Evangelist Scandals
Aimee Semple McPherson, 1920s–40s
One of the most famous evangelist scandals involved Canadian-born Aimee Semple McPherson in the 1920s, who allegedly had an extramarital relationship and faked her own death as a cover. She later claimed that she had been kidnapped, but a grand jury could neither prove that a kidnapping occurred, nor that she had faked it. Roberta Semple Salter, her daughter from her first marriage, became estranged from Semple McPherson and successfully sued her mother’s attorney for slander during the 1930s. As a result of this she was cut out of her mother’s will. Aimee Semple McPherson died in 1944 from an accidental overdose of barbiturates.
Lonnie Frisbee, 1970s–1980s
Lonnie Frisbee was an American closeted gay Pentecostal evangelist and self-described “seeing prophet” in the late 1960s and 1970s who despite his “hippie” appearance had notable success as a minister and evangelist. Frisbee was a key figure in the Jesus Movement and was involved in the rise of two worldwide denominations (Calvary Chapel and the Vineyard Movement). Both churches later disowned him because of his active homosexuality, removing him first from leadership positions, then ultimately firing him. He eventually died from AIDS in 1993.
Billy James Hargis, Early 1970s
Hargis was a prolific author and radio evangelist. Hargis formed American Christian College in 1971 in order to teach fundamentalist Christian principles. However, a sex scandal erupted at the College, involving claims that Hargis had had sex with male and female students. Hargis was forced out of American Christian College’s presidency as a result. Further scandals erupted when members of Hargis’ youth choir, the “All American Kids”, accused Hargis of sexual misconduct as well. The college eventually closed down in the mid-1970s. Hargis denied the allegations publicly.
Jim & Tammy Bakker And Jimmy Swaggart, 1986 And 1991
In 1986, evangelist Jimmy Swaggart began on-screen attacks against fellow televangelists Marvin Gorman and Jim Bakker. He uncovered Gorman’s affair with a member of Gorman’s congregation, and also helped expose Bakker’s infidelity (which was arranged by a colleague while on an out-of-state trip).[3] These exposures received widespread media coverage. Gorman retaliated in kind by hiring a private investigator to uncover Swaggart’s own adulterous indiscretions with a prostitute.[4] Swaggart was subsequently forced to step down from his pulpit for a year and made a tearful televised apology in February 1988 to his congregation, saying “I have sinned against you, my Lord, and I would ask that your precious blood would wash and cleanse every stain until it is in the seas of God’s forgiveness.”[5][6]
Swaggart was caught again by California police three years later in 1991 with another prostitute, Rosemary Garcia, who was riding with him in his car when he was stopped for driving on the wrong side of the road. When asked why she was with Swaggart, she replied, “He asked me for sex. I mean, that’s why he stopped me. That’s what I do. I’m a prostitute.”[7]
Peter Popoff, 1987
A self-proclaimed prophet and faith healer in the 1980s, Popoff’s ministry went bankrupt in 1987 after magician and skeptic James Randi and Steve Shaw debunked his methods by showing that instead of receiving information about audience members from supernatural sources, he received it through an in-ear receiver.[8]
Morris Cerullo, 1990s
A number of incidents involving California-based televangelist Morris Cerullo caused outrage in the United Kingdom during the 1990s. Cerullo’s claims of faith healing were the focus of particular concern. At a London crusade in 1992, he pronounced a child cancer sufferer to be healed, yet the girl died two months later. Multiple complaints were upheld against satellite television channels transmitting Cerullo’s claims of faith-healing, and a panel of doctors concluded that Cerullo’s claims of miraculous healing powers could not be substantiated. Cerullo also produced fund-raising material, which was condemned as unethical by a number of religious leaders, as it implied that giving money to his organisation would result in family members becoming Christians.[9]
Robert Tilton, 1991
Tilton is an American televangelist who achieved notoriety in the 1980s and early 1990s through his paid television program Success-N-Life. At its peak, it aired in all 235 American TV markets. In 1991, Diane Sawyer and ABC News conducted an investigation of Tilton. The investigation, broadcast on ABC’s Primetime Live on November 21, 1991, found that Tilton’s ministry threw away prayer requests without reading them, keeping only the money or valuables sent to them by viewers, garnering his ministry an estimated $80 million USD a year. In the original investigation, one of Tilton’s former prayer hotline operators claimed that the ministry cared little for desperate followers who called for prayer, saying that Tilton had a computer installed in July 1989 to make sure that the phone operators were off the line in seven minutes. Tilton sued ABC for libel in 1992, but the case was dismissed in 1993, and Tilton’s show was off the air by October 30, 1993.
Most of us don't consider those folks to have anything to do with Christianity....you realize that, right? They were shysters out to make a buck. They were not Christian pastors. What's frustrating is that you can't seem to tell the difference, nor does it appear you're even trying.
Most of us don't consider those folks to have anything to do with Christianity....you realize that, right? They were shysters out to make a buck. They were not Christian pastors. What's frustrating is that you can't seem to tell the difference, nor does it appear you're even trying.
Well, it's the same question reversed Viz....
How do we tell the difference between someone claiming that god commanded them and someone that's just crazy?
Most of us don't consider those folks to have anything to do with Christianity....you realize that, right? They were shysters out to make a buck. They were not Christian pastors. What's frustrating is that you can't seem to tell the difference, nor does it appear you're even trying.
Not being a Christian myself you folks all look alike to me and I am unqualified to make any differentiation. I am forced to conclude that if it walks the Christian walk, talks the Christian talk, and SAYS that it's a Christian, then it's a Christian. It does seem though, over the course of many years of talking to Christians, that there really is only one true Christian in the world at all. Ironically, that always happens to be the very person that I am talking to at that moment. Baptists and Fundamentalists declare Catholics to be false Christians. Catholics are certain that Baptists and Fundamentalists are going to hell. Orthodox don't think much of either side. To an outsider, nonsense is nonsense, and you all reek of the same "Jesus came back to life and then flew away" nonsense.
Most of us don't consider those folks to have anything to do with Christianity....you realize that, right? They were shysters out to make a buck. They were not Christian pastors. What's frustrating is that you can't seem to tell the difference, nor does it appear you're even trying.
The problem is that we only see this after the fact. Before the fact, what we see is christians following these people and defending them from criticism.
So I look at the TVangelists pounding the podium today, and I criticize them, in the face of face of people who will defend them, and complain about christians being persecuted. (See the recent c-d threads on Josh Duggar for examples.) We all know that a certain percentage of these folks will turn out to be not "true" christians. The problem is, we don't know which ones.
So if even christians can't tell the difference, why are you criticizing non-christians for being unable to tell the difference?
The problem is that we should start with family members. They are the ones that do it the most. But since when did facts get in the way of a belief statement gang war.
Not being a Christian myself you folks all look alike to me and I am unqualified to make any differentiation. I am forced to conclude that if it walks the Christian walk, talks the Christian talk, and SAYS that it's a Christian, then it's a Christian. It does seem though, over the course of many years of talking to Christians, that there really is only one true Christian in the world at all. Ironically, that always happens to be the very person that I am talking to at that moment. Baptists and Fundamentalists declare Catholics to be false Christians. Catholics are certain that Baptists and Fundamentalists are going to hell. Orthodox don't think much of either side. To an outsider, nonsense is nonsense, and you all reek of the same "Jesus came back to life and then flew away" nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg
The problem is that we only see this after the fact. Before the fact, what we see is christians following these people and defending them from criticism.
So I look at the TVangelists pounding the podium today, and I criticize them, in the face of face of people who will defend them, and complain about christians being persecuted. (See the recent c-d threads on Josh Duggar for examples.) We all know that a certain percentage of these folks will turn out to be not "true" christians. The problem is, we don't know which ones.
So if even christians can't tell the difference, why are you criticizing non-christians for being unable to tell the difference?
You could ask the same about anyone that applies for a job as a teacher but has no qualifications to be a teacher. Of course, it would become apparent to anyone that interviewed him for the position, and it would be apparent to anyone that looked at his resume. You may not know it from looking at him. Maybe he dresses like a teacher. Maybe he is able to talk the talk and use some words that a teacher uses....but it's clear from his resume that he doesn't have a clue what teaching is about.
Likewise, I've known from the start that these guys weren't Christians. How? By their doctrine. The list that you posted are people that teach stuff that isn't Christian doctrine. Look at what they preach. Look at their behavior. It's clear that they're not Christian pastors. It's as obvious as the guy that shows up at the local middle school with a certificate he printed on his home computer from a fake university. It's easily verifiable if you take the time to look.
And you suggesting that Christianity is somehow to blame for these nitwits is about as logical as me suggesting that the local school board is responsible for Cletus and his home-printed teaching certificate.
Likewise, I've known from the start that these guys weren't Christians. How? By their doctrine. The list that you posted are people that teach stuff that isn't Christian doctrine. Look at what they preach. Look at their behavior. It's clear that they're not Christian pastors. It's as obvious as the guy that shows up at the local middle school with a certificate he printed on his home computer from a fake university. It's easily verifiable if you take the time to look.
OK, I guess I missed the time you posted something like "I dunno about those Duggars, they're kind of creepy and they are living a little high on the hog" before Josh's, um, proclivities, became public. Can you show me where that was?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
And you suggesting that Christianity is somehow to blame for these nitwits is about as logical as me suggesting that the local school board is responsible for Cletus and his home-printed teaching certificate.
I'm not suggesting that christianity is to blame. I'm saying that many times, even right here on c-d, some christian or other states that atheists can't be moral, or that morality requires religion, or something along those lines. Again, maybe I missed it, can you point me to where you said, in response to such a post, that people claiming to be christians are not necessarily more moral than people who don't claim to be christians?
The problem is that we only see this after the fact. Before the fact, what we see is christians following these people and defending them from criticism.
So I look at the TVangelists pounding the podium today, and I criticize them, in the face of face of people who will defend them, and complain about christians being persecuted. (See the recent c-d threads on Josh Duggar for examples.) We all know that a certain percentage of these folks will turn out to be not "true" christians. The problem is, we don't know which ones.
So if even christians can't tell the difference, why are you criticizing non-christians for being unable to tell the difference?
Yes. during my husbands years in the ministry, we saw enough of the seedy underbelly of churches to make our heads spin. And every single time someone one was caught with their pants down (literally or figuratively), it was another round of "Christian until proven otherwise".
You could ask the same about anyone that applies for a job as a teacher but has no qualifications to be a teacher. Of course, it would become apparent to anyone that interviewed him for the position, and it would be apparent to anyone that looked at his resume. You may not know it from looking at him. Maybe he dresses like a teacher. Maybe he is able to talk the talk and use some words that a teacher uses....but it's clear from his resume that he doesn't have a clue what teaching is about.
Likewise, I've known from the start that these guys weren't Christians. How? By their doctrine. The list that you posted are people that teach stuff that isn't Christian doctrine. Look at what they preach. Look at their behavior. It's clear that they're not Christian pastors. It's as obvious as the guy that shows up at the local middle school with a certificate he printed on his home computer from a fake university. It's easily verifiable if you take the time to look.
And you suggesting that Christianity is somehow to blame for these nitwits is about as logical as me suggesting that the local school board is responsible for Cletus and his home-printed teaching certificate.
What's your position on the Rapture? Valid Christian doctrine? Or are those that profess it false Christians? What's your opinion on the perpetual virginity of Mary? Is it valid to claim that Mary was perpetually a virgin, born of a virgin herself? Or are those who profess it false Christians?
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