Jesus' claim to be Deity as recorded by Matthew and Mark (Isaiah, Egyptian)
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It is often stated, even by many scholars, that the Gospels of Matthew and Mark do not record any claims of Jesus to be God. But is that really the case? Actually not. However, Jesus' claim to be Deity as recorded in both Matthew and Mark which was so clearly understood by the Jews of Jesus' day requires a bit of explanation in order for modern day readers to understand the meaning of Jesus' statement.
While neither Matthew or Mark emphasize Jesus' Deity, they do record one very clear statement made by Jesus Himself to be God. Clear that is to the people to whom He said it.
The statement by Jesus in which He claimed to be God is found in Matthew 26:63-64, and in Mark 14:61-62. Jesus had been arrested and was being questioned by the high priest Caiaphas who asked Jesus if He was the Son of God, or as Mark recorded it, the Son of the Blessed One. After acknowledging that He was,- ''You have said it'' (Matthew 26:64); ''I am'' (Mark 14:62), Jesus then went on to say that He would be seen sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven (Matthew 26:64; Mark 14:62).
It's that last statement of Jesus in which He says that He will be ''sitting on the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven'' that He clearly claims to be God. To understand why requires a bit of background information.
Ancient Israel was not isolated from its surrounding neighbors and the Hebrews were influenced by them and their religions. Ugarit was a city to the north of Israel. The Ugarit's worshiped the god Baal. The Old Testament records Elijah's contest with the prophets of Baal. You can read the story yourself in 1 Kings chapter 18.
According to Old Testament scholar Michael S. Heiser in 'The Unseen Realm', p 251, and citing W. Hermann, ''Rider upon the clouds,'' in Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible, 2nd ed., an official title for Baal as recorded in Ugaritic literature was “the one who rides the clouds,” or “the one who mounts the clouds.” Heiser states that the title was not used of angels or lesser beings, and that therefore ''everyone in Israel who heard this title associated it with a deity.'' - https://www.logos.com/ugaritic
The Old Testament writers understood that the title, ''the cloud rider'' referred to Deity, and so in a polemic against the god Baal, they took the title and applied it to Yahweh. In doing so they were saying that it wasn't Baal who was the cloud rider, it was Yahweh.
Yahweh is referred to as the one who rides the clouds or rides the heavens in the following verses;
Deut. 33:26 "There is none like the God of Jeshurun, Who rides the heavens to your help, And through the skies in His majesty.
Psalm 68:32 Sing to God, O kingdoms of the earth, Sing praises to the Lord, Selah. 33] To Him who rides upon the highest heavens, which are from ancient times; Behold, He speaks forth with His voice, a mighty voice.
Psalm 104:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul! O LORD my God, You are very great; You are clothed with splendor and majesty, 2] Covering Yourself with light as with a cloak, Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain. 3] He lays the beams of His upper chambers in the waters; He makes the clouds His chariot; He walks upon the wings of the wind; 4] He makes the winds His messengers, Flaming fire His ministers.
Isaiah 19:1 The oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the LORD is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt; The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence, And the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them.
In the preceding verses Yahweh is said to be the one who rides the clouds, who rides upon the heavens. By taking a title that was used of the god Baal and claiming it for Yahweh the Old Testament writers were making a theological statement in which Baal was snubbed, and Yahweh was honored.
But in Daniel 7:13 the one who is said to be the one coming with the clouds of heaven is the Son of Man. In Daniel's vision in Daniel 7:13 the Son of Man comes up to the Ancient of Days which is a reference to God the Father. Jesus' favorite self designation was 'the Son of Man' which He took from Daniel 7:13. And Jesus answered Caiaphas by quoting Daniel 7:13 and applying it to Himself. In doing so He said that He is the One who rides the clouds. Jesus claimed for Himself a title that the Old Testament writers used of Yahweh which had previously been used of Baal. Jesus claimed to be God.
And the fact that Caiaphas understood that Jesus had just claimed to be God is clear from the fact that he immediately tore his clothes and accused Jesus of blasphemy, and condemned Him to be deserving of death. Caiaphas understood that when Jesus said He would be seen coming with the clouds of heaven He was claiming to be God.
Matthew 26:63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God." 64] Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Mark 14:61 But He kept silent and did not answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" 62] And Jesus said, “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”
The title, ''Son of Man'' is in part, a reference to Jesus' humanity and the title is used of other people in the Old Testament, but Caiaphas didn't get upset because Jesus said He was human. Caiaphas didn't go ''Arrggh, He just called himself human. That's blasphemy. He deserves to be put to death.'' No, Caiaphas understood full well that Jesus had just made a claim to Deity by stating that He would be seen coming on the clouds of heaven.
yes your right . every time they pick up stones to stone him He is claiming to be God and they try and stone him a lot of times.
weither he is standing in the temple area at the time of Dedication claiming to be the source of the fire that lights the candles ..... I am having a old moment and can't think of the word that was used to say he is the source of life that lights the light of the world.. he is talking about that candle you light first than you then use to the light the other candles.
thus he is saying basically he is the Father of light thus claiming TO BE CREATOR !
but there is just so many times that they try and stone him for blasphemy when he saying in their culture He is God to them .
it is thus our Job to not tell people what he means but to find out what he is really saying in their culture to them.
because they are not picking up stones for no reason.
and that is just the times he is saying things like that in front of them .
not counting like when he blows down the guards when they came to get him.
he is saying he is God when he does that .
so I agree there is so many times he is saying it directly and pointedly but in their culture .. he is not speaking to our Culture . He is there to deliver a message to the Jews from the part of the Father that is left in heaven.
So what? Any claim to be from the heavenly realms just means that he was educated and came from the ruling class. His birth story among the stable animals and the shepherds is shown in humility, because that humility is a representation of what is meant by coming down to earth to be like a son of man. The working class. He willingly came down "to the earth" when he left that heavenly upbringing as a Pharisee. Just like Paul.
Since I stated in the OP that Baal is called the cloud rider in Ugaritic texts, I should quote some actual Ugaritic literature rather than simply quoting scholars who themselves refer to those texts.
In the Baal Epic, Baal is repeatedly called the rider of the clouds. For example:
And Kothar-u-Khasis declared:
"Did I not tell Thee, O Prince Baal,
Nor declare, O Rider of Clouds?
'Lo, Thine enemies, O Baal,
Lo, Thine enemies wilt Thou smite
Lo, Thou wilt van quish Thy foes.
Thou wilt take Thine eternal kingdom;
Thine everlasting sovereignty!'"
By Name, Astarte rebukes:
"Shmae, O Aliyan Baal,
Shame, O Rider of the Clouds!
For Prince Yam was Our captive
For Judge River was Our captive."
And Kothar-u-Khasis declares:
"Hear, O Aliyan Baal!
Percieve, O Rider of Clouds! I shall surely put a window in the house,
A casement in the midst of the palace!" [Bolding mine]
That the Old Testament writers made use of the Ugaritic title given to Baal as ''the cloud rider'' by themselves applying that title to Yahweh cannot be reasonably doubted. It was a title of Deity, and in Daniel 7:13 that title is used for the Son of Man. Jesus applied Daniel 7:13 to Himself when He quoted that verse in reply to Caiaphas' question in Matthew 26:63-64, and Mark 14:61-62. And in quoting that verse and claiming to be the cloud rider Jesus was claiming to be God.
The point of this thread is to demonstrate that contrary to popular opinion, the Gospels of Matthew and Mark do record a statement referring to Jesus' Deity. I for one think that would be of interest to others.
hummmmm but baal just means husband or owner more hints of owner though .
and he accuses them in the old testament of calling the Lord/ HIM Baali.. I don't have time to find it .. but says something like .." for you will no longer call me (husband )baali ( or hints of owner ) but Ishi (husband) is hints of more personal .
found it
And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.
Hos 2:16
And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.
Box Hos 2:17
For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
Hos 2:18
And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.
Hos 2:19
And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
we forgot that baal's were originally just the owners and or husbands of city states and thus husbands of the female owners .
now the fact that they started doing nasty and bloodletting to the concept of the baal's has to do with that Menes stuff that no one wants to try and understand..
so God seems is being called Baali (husband ) early on . and probably allowed it until the Menes/ Mizraim usurping of the whole system and cultures reached it pinacle of filthy baby murdering etc.
how a thing starts isn't how it ends up like.
just give anything a few minutes and men and everything evil will try and distort it somehow in order to take advantage of it in order to use it somehow ! the more time it has the more distorted it will become..
hummmmm but baal just means husband or owner more hints of owner though .
and he accuses them in the old testament of calling the Lord/ HIM Baali.. I don't have time to find it .. but says something like .." for you will no longer call me (husband )baali ( or hints of owner ) but Ishi (husband) is hints of more personal .
And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.
Hos 2:16
And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.
Box Hos 2:17
For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
Hos 2:18
And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.
Hos 2:19
And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
we forgot that baal's were originally just the owners and or husbands of city states and thus husbands of the female owners .
now the fact that they started doing nasty and bloodletting to the concept of the baal's has to do with that Menes stuff that no one wants to try and understand..
so God seems is being called Baali (husband ) early on . and probably allowed it until the Menes/ Mizraim usurping of the whole system and cultures reached it pinacle of filthy baby murdering etc.
Baal was a Canaanite god and is referred to in the Old Testament. As I mentioned in the OP, the prophet Elijah challenged the prophets of Baal to a contest which they lost. 1 Kings chapter 18 records this.
At the time the Old Testament was written, Baal was a name applied to various gods. But the name was particularly associated with one god.
That topic, to state it again, is that the Gospels of Matthew and Mark record a claim of Jesus to be God. It is a fact that the Canaanite male god Baal was given the title, the one who rides the clouds. The Old Testament writers took that title and applied it to Yahweh. However, in Daniel 7:13 the title is used of the Son of Man and is the verse that Jesus quoted in reply to the high priests question to Him. In quoting that verse, Jesus claimed to be Deity.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 02-23-2017 at 07:36 AM..
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