Wonder why Christians are looked down upon? Just read the Christian responses in these 2 threads. (sunday, behavior)
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People like cupper and the liberal media are on a witch hunt against Christians. If there is one pastor that does something wrong, it is blown up as a HUGE story and you run it into the ground like the Duggars last year while promoting this air that atheists can never be wrong or do wrong. Someone has to show that the other side of the fence is a lot more ugly.
Who has EVER said that Jeff? Please, point me to 1 SINGLE post where someone says atheists can never be wrong, or do wrong. Just 1. What's that? You can' t find one? Well.....
What about you, though, Jeff? You defend every single Christian, in every single instance that I have ever seen. Even with Duggar, it took you many pages and days to even acknowledge that he may not be as nice a guy as you thought, all the while still taking up for him. So what about you, Jeff? Why do you think Christians can do no wrong? Why do you automatically assume any bad person you meet, or any bad thing that happens to a Christian must have been done by an atheist?
Who has EVER said that Jeff? Please, point me to 1 SINGLE post where someone says atheists can never be wrong, or do wrong. Just 1. What's that? You can' t find one? Well.....
I said they give off the air of this impression. Does it always have to be a direct quote with you? Mocking and running down people is one example because atheists here take it another step and actually try to justify it! Even act like it's a good thing in a debate. Even the exalted Shinra brags about her "Shinra schalackins". No,it's not a good thing because such rhetoric tells the Christian right off the bat that their position will NEVER be given an ounce of consideration. It's just all about making Christians look stupid or bad.
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Originally Posted by southernbored
What about you, though, Jeff? You defend every single Christian, in every single instance that I have ever seen. Even with Duggar, it took you many pages and days to even acknowledge that he may not be as nice a guy as you thought, all the while still taking up for him. So what about you, Jeff? Why do you think Christians can do no wrong? Why do you automatically assume any bad person you meet, or any bad thing that happens to a Christian must have been done by an atheist?
Well that's not true. I've been vocal against Westboro, the quacko Arizona pastor and other pastors who make outrageous comments. As for Duggar, I had no reason to think he was not a changed man. His action took place many years ago as a child. I believe in second chances.
I consider myself a 'rational thinker', so I'll poke my nose in and point a few things:
First, Hopper is a convicted felon. That doesn't magically go away once he's served his time; he is most definitely guilty, per federal law, as determined by a lawful jury.
Second, under Kentucky state law, the restrictions against Hopper are more severe than simply receiving permission to enter a school. Under Kentucky state law 17.165 (Restrictions on Employing violent offenders or persons convicted of sex crimes), he may not operate or seek employment in any registered child-care facility. His movements will be monitored by parole and probation officers; he may not own or operate a personal computer; and, like all convicted felons, he will never be permitted to own or use a firearm.
There's a difference, Romulus, between 'ostracizing' someone and being aware that they are a sex offender. I would certainly look askance at a convicted child-abuser seeking employment at my local church; considering that a church youth-group, by definition, would expose him to youth (in violation of his sex-offender status), I would protest very strongly were that the case.
If those accusing him committed perjury, then let that case go to trial so they can be punished. As it stands, the conviction was arrived at in accordance with state and Federal law.
Well, what you say above certainly sounds official but it does not tally with the information that I have. There are a number of sites that I've visited so that I can come to this thread with some actual background on the case. Such information, unfortunately, is extremely sparse since all of the items mainly concentrate on the words of the pastor and little else. There are several of these sites, however, that state: 'according to a representative of the Kentucky Sex Offender Registry Office Hopper's only restriction is that he has to get permission before he's allowed on school property.' One such item is below:
Something else that I've been unable to get is an actual account of what took place between Hopper and the young girl. All I've read is that he allegedly raped a 13 year-old girl while holding a razor knife to her throat. I'm not inferring that it didn't happen as we've been told but I'd like to see the actual transcript of the court hearing. In other words, the facts. Otherwise everything that we're discussing here is little more than hearsay.
I said they give off the air of this impression. Does it always have to be a direct quote with you? Mocking and running down people is one example because atheists here take it another step and actually try to justify it! Even act like it's a good thing in a debate. Even the exalted Shinra brags about her "Shinra schalackins". No,it's not a good thing because such rhetoric tells the Christian right off the bat that their position will NEVER be given an ounce of consideration. It's just all about making Christians look stupid or bad.
Well, then show where someone "gave off that air" then, because I have never seen an atheist imply that. I think this is yet another one of those times where you are reading into things something that is not there. Show me where an atheist did something bad, and I will condemn them as well. I imagine every other atheist would too.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Well that's not true. I've been vocal against Westboro, the quacko Arizona pastor and other pastors who make outrageous comments. As for Duggar, I had no reason to think he was not a changed man. His action took place many years ago as a child. I believe in second chances.
Been vocal how, exactly? All I have personally seen you say about Westboro is that they aren't "true Christians". However, if you don't believe they are Christians, then my point remains, as you aren't vocal against someone you believe to be Christian. I haven't seen anything from you about the wackjob in AZ that I can remember, but I know on this thread you have done nothing but defend the pastor. I have never seen you vocal against a pastor that I can recall.
I believe in second chances as well, Jeff. However, the Duggar issue wasn't just about Josh. It was as much about how his parents handled the situation than what Josh did back then. What you did, however, was vehemently defend both Josh, and how the family handled the situation, and even downplayed what happened. When some more recent bad stuff came out about him, only then did you admit that maybe, just maybe, he wasn't as good a person as you thought.
The point is, and please guys if I am wrong, let me know, that you will defend a Christian for just about anything, evidence be damned.
Something else that I've been unable to get is an actual account of what took place between Hopper and the young girl. All I've read is that he allegedly raped a 13 year-old girl while holding a razor knife to her throat. I'm not inferring that it didn't happen as we've been told but I'd like to see the actual transcript of the court hearing. In other words, the facts. Otherwise everything that we're discussing here is little more than hearsay.
So let me get this straight, okay? Since you don't have the court transcripts for the rape committed by the guy on the 13 year old girl, you will just look at it as hearsay?
Let me ask you this very simple question....
What more do you possibly need to know about the rape, and how would it possibly change your opinion on the issue? The guy RAPED a 13 year old girl while holding a razor to her throat. That is all most normal, rational people would need to know. Let's not forget, he has also been arrested for things like stalking in the past as well. He is not a good guy, period, end of story. Your continued defense of not just the pastor, but Hopper as well, is just sick.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Well, what you say above certainly sounds official but it does not tally with the information that I have. There are a number of sites that I've visited so that I can come to this thread with some actual background on the case. Such information, unfortunately, is extremely sparse since all of the items mainly concentrate on the words of the pastor and little else. There are several of these sites, however, that state: 'according to a representative of the Kentucky Sex Offender Registry Office Hopper's only restriction is that he has to get permission before he's allowed on school property.' One such item is below:
Something else that I've been unable to get is an actual account of what took place between Hopper and the young girl. All I've read is that he allegedly raped a 13 year-old girl while holding a razor knife to her throat. I'm not inferring that it didn't happen as we've been told but I'd like to see the actual transcript of the court hearing. In other words, the facts. Otherwise everything that we're discussing here is little more than hearsay.
He was convicted. He is required to be on the Kentucky sex offender registry. Why don't we look that up, to make sure it is not hearsay?
Something else that I've been unable to get is an actual account of what took place between Hopper and the young girl. All I've read is that he allegedly raped a 13 year-old girl while holding a razor knife to her throat. I'm not inferring that it didn't happen as we've been told but I'd like to see the actual transcript of the court hearing. In other words, the facts. Otherwise everything that we're discussing here is little more than hearsay.
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Originally Posted by southernbored
So let me get this straight, okay? Since you don't have the court transcripts for the rape committed by the guy on the 13 year old girl, you will just look at it as hearsay?
You heard me. So far any and all information that "I" have so far read online is vague about pretty much everything to do with the case. We're told that "Hopper was convicted of rape and sodomy of a 13 year-old girl in the early 1990s, followed by multiple criminal convictions in the early 2000s." "I" haven't even seen any reference to Hopper's age at the time of the offense/s. So, YES, "I" would like to know MORE about a case that has 'the lynch mob' on this thread pretty much frothing at the mouth!
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Originally Posted by southernbored
Let me ask you this very simple question....
Oh yes, please keep it very simple so that I can keep up . . .
Don't even think to patronize me! Okay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
What more do you possibly need to know about the rape, and how would it possibly change your opinion on the issue?
Well, I've been jumped on enough so far by those on this thread whose emotions rule their brains so I guess it won't hurt to be jumped on again.
Twenty-some years ago I had the misfortune to reside for several months with my young son in what is known here (Australia) as a Caravan Park ...Trailer Park to U.S. residents. Living there was a real eye-opener for me. All or most of the residents were people and families of lower socioeconomic status. My son was then a handsome 16 year-old. Young girls in the park were drawn to him and it became very evident to me that at least some of these girls (13 years-old and upwards) had the morals of alley cats. Some of these girls looked and acted much older than their actual age. On several occasions, I was fortunate to have been around to be able to nip some potential sexual incidents in the bud. I really disliked these 'loose' girls as they were nothing but ....teasers. I knew that, had anything happened (and I'm not sure that nothing did happen), my son would have been held totally accountable. Why? Because that's the way society has been programmed. Girls and females in general can pretty much get away with anything. And, they KNOW this!
So, yes ...Mr. southernbored, I WOULD like the facts. Is that okay with you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
The guy RAPED a 13 year old girl while holding a razor to her throat.
Yes, so you and the tabloid media keep saying. I want the court transcripts. If this did occur, was Hopper just joking around with the razor knife rather than actual threatening this girl ... a girl (despite her chronological age) who may have voluntarily been a part of the initial sex act? Have you seen some 13 year-old girls today? Do they look 13? Did Hopper know that she was 13? Did the girl tell Hopper that she was 13? Was the girl (regardless of her chronological age) a willing participant in the sex act?
See, I'm not like you, southernbored. I'm more interested in the facts rather than relying on sensationalist stories from cheap media tabloid programs, most or all of which are more concerned about what the pastor said anyway. I acquired a university degree by studying FACTS before arriving at decisions and handing in assignments. Savvy?
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Originally Posted by southernbored
That is all most normal, rational people would need to know.
Bzzzzz . . .FAIL! I've seen little evidence on this thread that suggests that people are coming across as normal and rational. Quite the contrary, Mr. southernbored!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
Let's not forget, he has also been arrested for things like stalking in the past as well.
Oh wow ...stalking! Perhaps you're not smart enough to realize that once a guy is a marked man just about everything he does is considered a crime. And no, I'm not 'defending' this man as such. I'm just not seeing these 'additional crimes' as being much more than mountains from molehills that are being plied against the man to appear to give him even more 'criminal status'.
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Originally Posted by southernbored
He is not a good guy, period, end of story.
Are YOU a good guy? How do we know this? Maybe you are in real life. But, you don't come across to me as being a good guy. You come across as harsh and judgmental. You come across as being sarcastic and demeaning toward those who don't agree with you. And, while not necessarily anything to do with being 'a good guy' ...you come across as being gullible ...believing the tabloids rather than the actual facts. You come across as having a closed mind ...sort of like those Christian fundamentalist we often talk about on the forum. In fact, it's rather interesting to note that some of those who criticize these Christian 'fundies' show similar traits themselves. Just an observation . . .
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Originally Posted by southernbored
Your continued defense of not just the pastor, but Hopper as well, is just sick.
Refer to what I said in the previous paragraph. You just made my point.
Well, well. And look at the age of the victim, in red, bottom left. 13 years old!
He's a dirtbag. Waste of human skin. And the pastor is not much better for the comments he made.
If you can pull you head out of your rear end for long enough to read my post to southernbored then please do so. It will save me from having to repeat myself.
As for dirtbag. Waste of human skin. NO rational person would make comments like this. You sound rather dangerous.
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