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I look at YOU gleefully making post after post, day after day, as the attack -- not this nitwit and the sheeple that naively support him. I do fault the people for supporting him, but I will again point out that you cannot condemn the religion for the actions of people that are not actually following what the religion teaches. You apparently seem unable or unwilling to grasp that point.
Yea, I too see that Vizio. I'm sure though that cupper3 is as perfect as perfect can be. He has never ever done anything wrong in his life and so he spends his time pointing the finger at everyone other than himself.
Yea I agree and in this case Hastert was packing mud rather than slinging it
Hastert is a sick individual and does not represent Christianity any more than all the child mollesting Catholic priests, who preyed and still prey on young children, represent Christianity.
And again we have the inevitable, "I knew him as a man of strong faith" statements from letters of support and character witnesses to the Judge in the Dennis Hastert trial.
Hastert was a serial abuser of boys, yet why once again do we get these phony and sanctimonious christians who talk about how the man is of faith, of god, what a wonderful human being he is etc. etc.
We don't ever see empathy for the victims from these christians, do we? Tom Delay's was one of the worst letters. We get this bovine scat word salad from him:
"...he started a biblestudy every Wednesday at lunch. It was just me and him and Charlie Wright (a pastor). It was a verypersonal time for the three of us. We held each other accountable and we studied God's word and
applied it to where we were at that moment. Nothing could have been more Intimate between us. So I
know his heart and have seen it up close and personal. We all have our flaws, but Dennis Hastert has
very few. He is a good man that loves the lord. He gets his integrity and values from Him. He doesn't
deserve what he is going through. I ask that you consider the man that is before you and give him
leniency where you can. Thank you."
He's a good man that loves the lord. Stuff it, you lying, convicted felon. How flippin' christian of you. But again, there will be those who think Delay is right.
This is why I never trust the "holier than thou" types. Ted Cruz.... bet there are skeletons in THAT closet lol!
Just because some people do turn out quite good with their Christian faith does not mean it's evidence that the way Christianity is taught is an efficient way of promoting good behavior.
What I was saying is that Christianity tends to place more moral weight on faith and intention than actual action. While the abstract threat of Hell doesn't really make an appearance until the NT, the way to become a pious person seems to just be about faith. People can do terrible things, but as long as they repent, there is no real problem.
How does this promote good behavior?
In fairness, I think there is a good deal of variability in various Christian denominations in how these things are handled.
I think it's a fair criticism that fundamentalist Christian ideology is far more about correct belief than about correct action, however, my guess is that Viz himself would expect to see demonstrated virtue as evidence OF correct belief.
The problem is, where you draw that line is pretty subjective. In the case of Hastert you have a lot of people who admire his public / political career and have trouble reconciling what they perceive to be self-sacrificing and benevolent devotion to his career as an educator, with the sexual predator behaviors that have apparently been demonstrated to have occurred. Many of these people are willing to see the his predatory acts as aberrations to be explained away or excused. Not coincidentally, these are family members, longtime friends and admirers who have a lot of ego invested in their image of Dennis Hastert, Man of Virtue(tm). They do not want to "be wrong" about that lifetime image they have held of him.
Viz is not willing to see this as an aberration, to the point that he doesn't claim Hastert is a fallen Christian who needs to repent; he claims he isn't a Christian in the first place. Others will make different calls.
Personally back in the day I probably would have said that Hastert was a Christian who made some fatal and (in practical terms) irredeemable mistakes that forever deprive him of any form of public or private trust. He has disgraced himself, and some forms of disgrace can't be expunged. And shouldn't be.
To me this is far more credible than the circular reasoning that a Christian who exhibits sufficiently bad judgment just isn't or never was a True Christian. That is no better than the nonsense that a Christian who stops believing was never an actual Christian, but some sort of counterfeit. It is self-ratifying baloney to make such assertions. In my view they are dishonest machinations designed to preserve claims of moral superiority by throwing under the bus any Christian who crosses the line into really giving the lie to those moral claims. Viz has always said that outside of his concept of Christian morality, no morality has actual authority to legitimize it. Well -- understandably he does not want a pederast on board making his moral authority look pretty unimpressive. So Hastert was Never One Of Us. End of story.
Well, not so fast. No one, including Hastert, me back in the day, or Viz, takes a moral quiz to claim to be transformed by the love of god and the work of the Holy Spirit. All are accepted on their word to have done so. Before Hastert's perfidy with respect to sexual conduct with minors was known, Viz would have had every reason to regard him favorably as a champion for god and country. He doesn't get to rescind that now just because Hastert has done something, shall we say, morally inconvenient. Hastert is a problem for Viz whether he wants to accept it or not.
Hastert is a sick individual and does not represent Christianity any more than all the child mollesting Catholic priests, who preyed and still prey on young children, represent Christianity.
Yes his acts were against the Christian doctrine but does that mean he is not a Christian or cannot repent and still be a Christian? I'm not defending him personally or his actions but rather arguing the religious doctrine side of it.
If he committed these "sins" decades ago or weeks ago and repented and asked god for forgiveness are other Christians not suppose to forgive him? Isn't that part of the doctrine of Christianity regardless of the sin or crime a person commits? If you are a Christian and believe in it's teachings then you are instructed to forgive? as well as the fact God said all sin in his eyes are the same or something of that nature?
Yes his acts were against the Christian doctrine but does that mean he is not a Christian or cannot repent and still be a Christian? I'm not defending him personally or his actions but rather arguing the religious doctrine side of it.
King David had Bathsheba's husband killed. Yes, he didn't get off scott free. But he will be in the kingdom when he is resurrected. If Hastert is truly saved, he should not be allowed in any church until he repents. Not that this is a license to do bad but . . . a true believer can not do anything to undo his ultimate salvation since it is not earned and cannot be lost by anything we do or do not do.
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If he committed these "sins" decades ago or weeks ago and repented and asked god for forgiveness are other Christians not suppose to forgive him? Isn't that part of the doctrine of Christianity regardless of the sin or crime a person commits? If you are a Christian and believe in it's teachings then you are instructed to forgive? as well as the fact God said all sin in his eyes are the same or something of that nature?
I don't know Jeff. But I do know that Westboro does not represent Christianity.
Jeffbase posts here. Jeff believes he is Christian. Westboro does not post here. They also believe they are Christian. What do they have in common? Christianity.
Whether we like it or not, they both represent Christianity.
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