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I'm sure though that cupper3 is as perfect as perfect can be. He has never ever done anything wrong in his life and so he spends his time pointing the finger at everyone other than himself.
Unless you can demonstrate cupper is making a claim of moral perfection I think you are being very disingenuous to claim that he is. Cupper is not claiming for himself moral virtue backed by the authority of God Almighty. Christians, in some form or other, are doing just that. And that is why it is particularly odious when someone who makes such claims (1) gives the lie to the claim and (2) has people lining up to excuse and justify those claims without regard to the needs of his victims.
If you're not in that particular conga line, good for you -- you're to be commended for it. But you can't exactly wash your hands of it either, by claiming the person in question was Never One Of Us.
Jeffbase posts here. Jeff believes he is Christian. Westboro does not post here. They also believe they are Christian. What do they have in common? Christianity.
Whether we like it or not, they both represent Christianity.
Unless you can demonstrate cupper is making a claim of moral perfection I think you are being very disingenuous to claim that he is. Cupper is not claiming for himself moral virtue backed by the authority of God Almighty. Christians, in some form or other, are doing just that. And that is why it is particularly odious when someone who makes such claims (1) gives the lie to the claim and (2) has people lining up to excuse and justify those claims without regard to the needs of his victims.
If you're not in that particular conga line, good for you -- you're to be commended for it. But you can't exactly wash your hands of it either, by claiming the person in question was Never One Of Us.
I don't know of any minister on t.v. that represents me or my Christianity. A bunch of them are, in my opinion, a bunch of charlatans. Some may be okay but I no longer follow any of them and have not for around 40 years. Every now and then, while channel surfing, I may stop and see what they are saying but usually what they say confirms my suspicions and I move on. There is one guy my neighbor told me about yesterday I never heard of by the name of Les Feldick. He has never asked for money. He and his wife have been doing their ministry for many years. He is, from what my neighbor told me, a farmer. But I don't know what he teaches or believes. His ministry is "Through the Bible."
I realize my failings. I realize I am a sinner. But I also realize that Christ died for all my failings, my sins and in that I can rejoice.
I don't know of any minister on t.v. that represents me or my Christianity. A bunch of them are, in my opinion, a bunch of charlatans. Some may be okay but I no longer follow any of them and have not for around 40 years. Every now and then, while channel surfing, I may stop and see what they are saying but usually what they say confirms my suspicions and I move on.
That is pretty much how I treated ministers of the gospel when I was a Christian and it is pretty much how I give out my vote to political candidates -- if I approve of their positions I vote for them, if I don't, then I don't vote. Very seldom are there two candidates in the same horse race that I have to weigh which is better than the other. Often there are none at all.
I think this kind of principled endorsement is best in either realm. So guess what, we have found something that we agree on.
That said, I hope that you do not respond to professing Christians who do morally reprehensible things by disavowing their Christianity when any reasonable person would have regarded them as a Christian before they were exposed as moral lepers. Otherwise, i don't see how Christianity can ever take proper responsibility for its own moral failures, if it can't even admit that it ever HAS them.
In particular, I hope you understand the core objection in this matter of Hastert isn't so much a "gotcha moment" that he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar, it is more that people are fawning all over him at the expense of his victims. That is really an even greater moral failure than whatever Hastert did.
That is pretty much how I treated ministers of the gospel when I was a Christian and it is pretty much how I give out my vote to political candidates -- if I approve of their positions I vote for them, if I don't, then I don't vote. Very seldom are there two candidates in the same horse race that I have to weigh which is better than the other. Often there are none at all.
I think this kind of principled endorsement is best in either realm. So guess what, we have found something that we agree on.
That said, I hope that you do not respond to professing Christians who do morally reprehensible things by disavowing their Christianity when any reasonable person would have regarded them as a Christian before they were exposed as moral lepers. Otherwise, i don't see how Christianity can ever take proper responsibility for its own moral failures, if it can't even admit that it ever HAS them.
In particular, I hope you understand the core objection in this matter of Hastert isn't so much a "gotcha moment" that he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar, it is more that people are fawning all over him at the expense of his victims. That is really an even greater moral failure than whatever Hastert did.
I really feel sorry for those who were once children but who now must go through life having to deal with the crushing, heart rending things Hastert did to them. From what I've read, the children who were sexually abused by priests many years ago are still dealing with that nightmare. Some can't cope and commit suicide. Though I was raised Catholic and was an altar boy, the priests never did anything sexually toward any of us . . . that I know of. They were really good men who really cared for us. My oldest brother's two sons did not fare so well. They were both sexually abused by a priest. My brother confronted the higher-ups in the church and they did absolutely nothing about it but move the priest to another parish to abuse more boys and then moved him to a higher position. My brother quit the Catholic church after having to deal with all that and good for him. That is his only way to protest.
So do you believe Jesus was petty with inferior morals?
I think, if he was an actual person more or less close to what the NT says....then his followers have not embraced his empathy and humanism. Even if he was imperfect himself by not elevating all aspects of morality of the day (like slavery).
In other words....I don't suspect Jesus would approve of voluntary war, crony-capitalism, shunning, or tolerating starvation because taxes should be lower. But I do suspect t.he majority of people who do follow that line of rationale would call themselves Christian, and perhaps Muslim depending on where you are.
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