Colorado Supreme Court Rules You Can't Cite Religion For Not Baking A Cake (soul, Muslims)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What Texas bakers are you talking about? We are talking about ones in Colorado. Morality is a subjective discussion. You find morality in upholding standards based on a book; I do not.
If morality is subjective, then what is your basis for judging anyone as moral or immoral?
There are some things that are illegal in one state but not another. It is legal for me to concealed carry in my state, but if I do so in other states I may get in trouble for violating their concealed carry laws. It is up to me to know the laws of the state that I am in.
In the Texas case there was no case. The bakers were not sued or fined. They are allowed to turn away gays all day long if they so choose. For now at least.
My point is the "it's the law" argument is not a moral argument. That "moral" changes with your location. It's a refusal to look at the ethical conflict.
I think that morally a business has no right to refuse to sell a wedding cake to a same sex couple. Legally they would be breaking the law in some states but not in other states.
With that stance then you are saying you think it's perfectly fine and good for the government to force someone to perform an action against their moral or religious beliefs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
I never expect you do agree with me on this issue but I cannot understand why you refuse to recognize that we have indeed addressed the moral issues. We see the morals from a different view point that you do. I do see why you think it is moral to discriminate against some customers for some reasons, I do not agree with that. Can you also not see how we see discrimination against a group as wrong even if you don't agree that it is wrong for Christians to do so?
Sorry I don't buy it. When the shoe was on the other foot, you had absolutely NO problem with a gay baker refusing to make a cake for a Christian customer. You obviously just want discrimination laws to ONLY favor gays and always always hurt Christians and ONLY Christians.
With that stance then you are saying you think it's perfectly fine and good for the government to force someone to perform an action against their moral or religious beliefs.
Sorry I don't buy it. When the shoe was on the other foot, you had absolutely NO problem with a gay baker refusing to make a cake for a Christian customer. You obviously just want discrimination laws to ONLY favor gays and always always hurt Christians and ONLY Christians.
Sorry but that has been explained to you in the psst. If a person walks into a bakery and orders a cake with disgusting slogans on it and the baker does not serve anyone that they have the right to refuse that service. If a person walks into a bakery and orders a product that the bakery sells then the cannot (or in some places should not) refuse to sell that product based on the group membership of the customer l
That you continue to refuse to see the difference between a cake for a wedding and a cake with a disgusting slogan on it is your problem as it has been explained to you many times. If I walked into any bakery and ordered a cake with the words JESUS SUCKS any baker has the right to refuse to make that cake. I have not changed my stance and you continue to ignore the difference between a cake and the wording on it.
I don't buy the reason that the cake is immoral. You do not need to be married to have sex. I strongly believe that a church has the right to refuse to hold a ssm ceremony in it or have the pastor not marry the couple but bakeries are not religious organizations. You have also supported the government to discriminate against gays.
If you wish to disagree with me that is your right but telling me what I support or think is simply showing that you pay no attention to what others actually said and you are as wrong about me as you are about animals not having vocal chords. To make it clear if I was a baker and you came into my bakery for a wedding cake for a marriage in a fundamentalist church and I knew that it was you, in my opinion it should be illegal for me to discriminate against you based on your religion and I feel it would be immoral for me to do so even if it was legal. I tell you what my views are and you twist them for your own purposes. Those Christians ordering a cake from gay bakeries deliberated baited those bakeries with hateful slogans.
Sorry but that has been explained to you in the psst. If a person walks into a bakery and orders a cake with disgusting slogans on it and the baker does not serve anyone that they have the right to refuse that service. If a person walks into a bakery and orders a product that the bakery sells then the cannot (or in some places should not) refuse to sell that product based on the group membership of the customer l
Oh of course, let's make exceptions when it doesn't favor your group!!! Well what's wrong with making an exception for people that don't want anything to do with gay marriage? The gay baker makes cake. It's a cake! Exact same product. They refused to make a cake for a Christian. Same product. Unbelievably hypocritical. Guess what, we find gay marriage to be disgusting! So it's the exact same situation.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,920,960 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose
There are some things that are illegal in one state but not another. It is legal for me to concealed carry in my state, but if I do so in other states I may get in trouble for violating their concealed carry laws. It is up to me to know the laws of the state that I am in.
In the Texas case there was no case. The bakers were not sued or fined. They are allowed to turn away gays all day long if they so choose. For now at least.
Do you think that form of discrimination is a good thing?
Oh of course, let's make exceptions when it doesn't favor your group!!! Well what's wrong with making an exception for people that don't want anything to do with gay marriage? The gay baker makes cake. It's a cake! Exact same product. They refused to make a cake for a Christian. Same product. Unbelievably hypocritical. Guess what, we find gay marriage to be disgusting! So it's the exact same situation.
If they don't put vulgar sayings on it for Christians they don't have to out them on for gays. Is a cake with no says on it the same as a cake with slogans on it? It is not the same product. And I made it very clear that a Christian baker would have the right to refuse to put on an anti Christian slogan on the cake. How is that making an exception for only one side. The refusal was only for putting on a vulgar slogan, one bakery made it clear that they do not put slogans on their cake and another didn't even make cakes. Like I said you are as wrong about what I mean as you were about animals not having vocal chords.
I deliberately made it clear that any person ordering a cake with vulgar slogans from a baker who does not put slogans on a cake can and will be turned down. It does not matter if the customer is gay or Christian nor if the baker is gay or Christian or if both are gays or Christians. I might not find an anti Christian slogan to be disgusting but I would refuse to put that on a cake. It is not hypocritical to treat everyone the same. I also stated that it would be wrong for a person like me to refuse to bake you a wedding cake. But no you ignore most of my post and then twist around what I did say.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,920,960 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
Sorry but that has been explained to you in the psst. If a person walks into a bakery and orders a cake with disgusting slogans on it and the baker does not serve anyone that they have the right to refuse that service. If a person walks into a bakery and orders a product that the bakery sells then the cannot (or in some places should not) refuse to sell that product based on the group membership of the customer l
That you continue to refuse to see the difference between a cake for a wedding and a cake with a disgusting slogan on it is your problem as it has been explained to you many times. If I walked into any bakery and ordered a cake with the words JESUS SUCKS any baker has the right to refuse to make that cake. I have not changed my stance and you continue to ignore the difference between a cake and the wording on it.
I don't buy the reason that the cake is immoral. You do not need to be married to have sex. I strongly believe that a church has the right to refuse to hold a ssm ceremony in it or have the pastor not marry the couple but bakeries are not religious organizations. You have also supported the government to discriminate against gays.
If you wish to disagree with me that is your right but telling me what I support or think is simply showing that you pay no attention to what others actually said and you are as wrong about me as you are about animals not having vocal chords. To make it clear if I was a baker and you came into my bakery for a wedding cake for a marriage in a fundamentalist church and I knew that it was you, in my opinion it should be illegal for me to discriminate against you based on your religion and I feel it would be immoral for me to do so even if it was legal. I tell you what my views are and you twist them for your own purposes. Those Christians ordering a cake from gay bakeries deliberated baited those bakeries with hateful slogans.
Jeff has trouble understanding or reading the fine details. And below, he proves it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Oh of course, let's make exceptions when it doesn't favor your group!!! Well what's wrong with making an exception for people that don't want anything to do with gay marriage? The gay baker makes cake. It's a cake! Exact same product. They refused to make a cake for a Christian. Same product. Unbelievably hypocritical. Guess what, we find gay marriage to be disgusting! So it's the exact same situation.
Find gay marriage disgusting? Then don't get married to one, Jeff. I can assure you, gay people I know don't want to marry straight people like you or me. What does is matter if you find it disgusting, what does that have to do with anything. It doesn't affect you, it doesn't affect me, and frankly, it doesn't affect the fundie christian baker. He's not going to the wedding, he is supplying a cake.
Would he refuse to sell that cake to someone who visits porn shops, has committed adultery or is getting married for the third time? All of those are quite common in the bible belt for some reason.
Find gay marriage disgusting? Then don't get married to one, Jeff. I can assure you, gay people I know don't want to marry straight people like you or me. What does is matter if you find it disgusting, what does that have to do with anything. It doesn't affect you, it doesn't affect me, and frankly, it doesn't affect the fundie christian baker. He's not going to the wedding, he is supplying a cake.
Sorry but that is a weak argument. Just switch it out to a form of sin that you don't like.
Don't like fathers marrying their daughters? Then don't have incest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3
Would he refuse to sell that cake to someone who visits porn shops, has committed adultery or is getting married for the third time? All of those are quite common in the bible belt for some reason.
If the cake was a celebration of such activities or used in an immoral ceremony, I doubt they would want to sell it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
