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It's not convenience. I look at context. I also study the Quran (which I do believe is a correction of the previous scriptures) for consistency. I am new to studying and open to correction, but thus far...based on my readings and my knowledge of the history of the US...I do believe these were written to suit a specific purpose.
In a perfect world I'd have access to the original scriptures in Hebrew and would be able to read Hebrew to understand the scriptures in their original context. Too bad the world isn't (yet) perfect.
How convenient that if you don't like something you read in the bible, you can just say, "Oh, that's an altered part".
Oh, it's okay if slavery only lasts 6 years. That's just fine.
Worse yet they prove the point with their bible verses but not in the way they intend. God, the Bible, cannot be proven. It's only excepted as valid because enough people follow it and therefore it became acceptable in our society.
Social acceptance is our reality.
This is the very reason slavery was allowed, it became accepted because enough people did it, even though it was horribly wrong. It became an acceptable way to make a profit.
This is why people are fighting against religious bakers refusing to make cakes for gay people. They know that if this becomes acceptable they are domed. With so many lessons provided in our past, there are no excuses left. We cannot allow this type of behavior to become accepted in our society again.
Last edited by Tokinouta; 06-09-2018 at 12:51 PM..
Leviticus 25:39-43 does speak against slavery. Now I will admit that Leviticus 25:44-46 contradicts that by saying you can take people from other nations as slaves, but personally, I feel this is one of those altered parts of the texts. I can't recall the Bible verse where God said the Israelites could take indentured servants for 6 years and release them on the 7th..but I will post it when I find it. This "6th year; release on 7th" coincides with other things in the Bible like the Sabbath. God worked on creation for 6 days and rested on the 7th. Likewise, God would allow you to "work" your hired help for 6 years, then you release them (give them rest) in the 7th year. To me, this is how you gauge whether the information in the Bible is true or not. Is it consistent with other themes in the Bible? Is it consistent with God's commands? If the answer is "no", one should question whether that part of the Bible came from God or man.
Taking people as slaves indefinitely and abusing them isn't in line with how God told the Israelites to treat their hired help.
Does the Bible mention releasing female servants after 6 or 7 years? Does it not also state that if a male Hebrew can a slave unmarried and the owner gave him a wife, at the 3rd of 7 years he could choose to be free or stay with him wife and remain a slave?
When did Europeans make an error in translation so that there could be slavery in America?
Would killing witches or being against homosexuals in line with a loving God?
I have pretty much explained my position in my previous posts. I'd just be talking in circles at this point. But this has been a good discussion for me.
Worse yet they prove the point with their bible verses but not in the way they intend. God, the Bible, cannot be proven. It's only excepted as valid because enough people follow it and therefore it became acceptable in our society.
Social acceptance is our reality.
This is the very reason slavery was allowed, it became accepted because enough people did it, even though it was horribly wrong. It became an acceptable way to make a profit.
This is why people are fighting against religious bakers refusing to make cakes for gay people. They know that if this becomes acceptable they are domed. With so many lessons provided in our past, there is no excuses left. We cannot allow this type of behavior to become accepted in our society again.
And here's what's interesting to me. I am new to be an atheist. For the first 67 years of my life, I was a christian.
But since converting, the more I read their justifications, the more anti-christian I become. Frankly, I find many of their justifications abhorrent.
That's quite revealing. If you have Faith, you can excuse pretty much anything, or at least sideline a few things and keep Faith.
But once you lose that and stop making excuses, then the deconvert sees what he or she was doing. There is no way they seem to be able to do this while in Faith.
That's quite revealing. If you have Faith, you can excuse pretty much anything, or at least sideline a few things and keep Faith.
But once you lose that and stop making excuses, then the deconvert sees what he or she was doing. There is no way they seem to be able to do this while in Faith.
Yes. I think of it like a horse with blinders on. Or looking at the world through rose colored glasses. It's impossible to see reality, either way.
This is actually a good analogy for both sides. That's why I try not to engage in religious debate. Those whose hearts are open to receiving the message will have ears to hear and eyes to see. That's why I don't understand the attack on Islam. The Quran explicitly says there's no compulsion in religion. So any Muslim trying to force Islam on you is breaking God's law. That's why I don't consider myself religious and just read for understanding. Too many religious leaders use the people's ignorance to lead them astray. And not enough people read for their own understanding, which is what you're supposed to do. The more you read, the more God will give you understanding. That has been my experience.
Yes. I think of it like a horse with blinders on. Or looking at the world through rose colored glasses. It's impossible to see reality, either way.
Yes. I know just why the Other side simply doesn't "Get" us, and no matter how much we explain, we won'r be "Got". Which is why the browsers and lurkers are the real targets of the debate, though a sudden breakthrough of the actual poster is good, though rare.
But I think I've done all I can or need to and probably as much as the punters can stand, so maybe I'll leave it to Tokinouta and treemoni (what marvellous names ) to give the thread a shot in the arm while we old warhorses (Jeff, BF and I) stumble off for some oats and a lie -down, and leave it to you fresh lads.
This is actually a good analogy for both sides. That's why I try not to engage in religious debate. Those whose hearts are open to receiving the message will have ears to hear and eyes to see. That's why I don't understand the attack on Islam. The Quran explicitly says there's no compulsion in religion. So any Muslim trying to force Islam on you is breaking God's law. That's why I don't consider myself religious and just read for understanding. Too many religious leaders use the people's ignorance to lead them astray. And not enough people read for their own understanding, which is what you're supposed to do. The more you read, the more God will give you understanding. That has been my experience.
You're not trying hard at all.
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) to give the thread a shot in the arm while we old warhorses (Jeff, BF and I) stumble off for some oats and a lie -down, and leave it to you fresh lads.