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Think about that one. It is indeed a slippery slope. In time they'll come for the atheists, as well.
In America, we are still free, but freedom is being restricted more and more every day.
Do you think so? Then, if we do get a secular society with freedom for all religions and none rather than just for One, then we shall have to maintain vigilance against "They" (whoever They are) seeking abolish that freedom. It won't be the atheists. Once you have seen that a secular society for all is also, thus, in your interests, you might stop fighting us for the right to force your values on everyone else and help in maintaining rights for all.
Do you think so? Then, if we do get a secular society with freedom for all religions and none rather than just for One, then we shall have to maintain vigilance against "They" (whoever They are) seeking abolish that freedom. It won't be the atheists. Once you have seen that a secular society for all is also, thus, in your interests, you might stop fighting us for the right to force your values on everyone else and help in maintaining rights for all.
No...ultimately, it will be a secular leader demanding absolute devotion. Or maybe a religious leader using religion. But either one should scare the crap out of all of us. Our founding fathers provided for freedom for us. Don't give it up for anything.
Jeff you are making this a Christian vs atheist argument which eliminates the majority of people who support ssm. In fact two women can be married by a married gay pastor in a Church so in essence you wish for business owners to be able to decide which Christians are moral.
In an article in the Guardian (I am unable to link on my tablet) over 68z% of mainline Protestant and 35% of Evangelicals support SSM and those numbers are growing. Some of those same sex couples you find immoral because they wish to live together forever are Christians and maybe even Evangelical. Not all gays are atheists, many do give up the belief when they are faced with hatred and disgust by those who claim agape love.
Your solution is that discrimination be allowed for any religious claim unless it has been deemed essential for life. Do you believe that if a baker refuses to make a cake for a same sex couple because it is immoral should he ten be required to refuse to sell to a couple that either or both have been divorced or do you think him can be selective on who he thinks what is immoral based on using his religion? Would it not be blatantly discrimination if he chooses one but not the other too refuse?
If religious freedom was destroyed, atheism would also be under threat, as atheists would not be free to NOT believe. You are disgusted because you can not grasp such simple concepts?
Oh, wait, you are disgusted because we will not allow you to be a bigot.
Atheism is a religion? The only bigotry going on here is bigotry against Christians.
Atheism is a religion? The only bigotry going on here is bigotry against Christians.
It isn't, but it has the same rights. or it does now, thanks to changes in the law. There is no bigotry against Christianity...well, not much...but it looks that way to you as the lied and arrogance of Christianity are being exposed and its' privileged position coming under attack.
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
No...ultimately, it will be a secular leader demanding absolute devotion. Or maybe a religious leader using religion. But either one should scare the crap out of all of us. Our founding fathers provided for freedom for us. Don't give it up for anything.
I do agree there. But you forget - we do have a secular society already. And if we get a populace as aware as they need to be to Know they are secular, they will be aware enough to prevent any dictator - atheist or religious - taking control. Don't get the wind up about secularism. With two chump presidential candidates out of three last election being elected, it is the religious right you need to be scared of.
I do agree there. But you forget - we do have a secular society already. And if we get a populace as aware as they need to be to Know they are secular, they will be aware enough to prevent any dictator - atheist or religious - taking control. Don't get the wind up about secularism. With two chump presidential candidates out of three last election being elected, it is the religious right you need to be scared of.
I disagree....I think Trump being elected kind of neutralizes a lot of the "religious right".
Atheism is a religion? The only bigotry going on here is bigotry against Christians.
What you have on this website is not bigotry against Christians. Most of us who are atheistic have no big problem with the individual who quietly practices his religion in a way that does not discriminate against others. What we have is bigotry against what I'll call deep state Christianity and its efforts to insert itself into the lives of non-believers, as is perfectly exemplified by...you and your ilk (and yes, I choose that term intentionally).
I have a neighbor who is very active in his church, which happens to be Methodist. Wonderful guy. When I think of someone practicing most of the lessons Christ taught, I think of this man. He believes in inclusion and occasionally invites me to events at his church. There's never any pressure...never any preaching...just fellowship. That's the type of Christian I actually admire.
You are letting that disgust warp your sense of logic and justice. You know that minorities (and animals are protected by law) except minorities like racists and like, who do NOT have the right to insist that people accede to their demands.
Nope, my dog example was perfectly logical and legal. Animals are protected by law? Wow, who knew that all those farmers out there were breaking the law. A perfectly valid example with another lame copout response.
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
The Christians had the right to take the Gay cafe owner to court, but they didn't as they were in the wrong (you and I will recall that it looked like a set -up agent provocateur job, like the ranting atheist video, but it didn't go their way). Nobody is denying the right swing you religious arm, but that right ends where the gay nose begins.
If they are in the wrong, why would they have the right to take them to court? Sounds like you just want the law to always rake against Christians.
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
You may detest us as much as you like. It's all good as one day you will realise that your loathing is because you can't bear it that Christianity cannot do whatever it likes. And you will what religion has made you into.
Christianity leads to people loving each other. Atheism leads to more anger, suicide and conflict which we are seeing the fruits of those atheist seeds starting to sprout today.
Nope, my dog example was perfectly logical and legal. Animals are protected by law? Wow, who knew that all those farmers out there were breaking the law. A perfectly valid example with another lame copout response.
You know as well as I do that animals ARE protected by law, but outside of India perhaps, no Law protects animals from being farmed for food. You can argue the morality of that, but that's the law and you know it as well as i do.
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If they are in the wrong, why would they have the right to take them to court? Sounds like you just want the law to always rake against Christians.
Because even in open and shut cases, you still have to give people their day in court. In other ases, while the rights are there in legal precedent, you have to give everyone a chance to argue their case. You know that as well as I do, too.
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Christianity leads to people loving each other. Atheism leads to more anger, suicide and conflict which we are seeing the fruits of those atheist seeds starting to sprout today.
It suits you of course to blame a perceived increase in "anger, suicide and conflict" (arguable) on the increase in irreligion. Even if the Good Old days, everything was blamed on taking prayer out of schol, and before that on not have enough religion. You people won't stop blaming anyone and anybody but Christianity and its' believers for social problem until you have a theocracy. And then you won't have to explain or even acknowledge that there Are any problems.
No...ultimately, it will be a secular leader demanding absolute devotion. Or maybe a religious leader using religion. But either one should scare the crap out of all of us. Our founding fathers provided for freedom for us. Don't give it up for anything.
I love that Transponder sees it as forcing our values when it was the gay couple that came into his store and demanded that he compromise his values. They are the ones forcing their values onto us!
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I do agree there. But you forget - we do have a secular society already. And if we get a populace as aware as they need to be to Know they are secular, they will be aware enough to prevent any dictator - atheist or religious - taking control. Don't get the wind up about secularism. With two chump presidential candidates out of three last election being elected, it is the religious right you need to be scared of.