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Let's see, what number is that in the atheist guidebook to always winning the argument? #33?
33. - if all else fails, just demand evidence, but ONLY evidence from a peer reviewed study. In the rare event that they have such a study, find some way to discredit the source. Works every time!!
Well clearly you just made that up (as usual) given that most atheists ask for evidence FIRST. Not at the end of when "all else fails". It is where most of them start. So as usual when you talk about atheists, you are simply making up things out of your own head about them and presenting as true.
Further the issue when you present studies is rarely that there is a problem with the source. The problem usually lies with you misrepresenting the data from the study. You simply, and consistently, outright claim the study shows things it does not show.
The most common example of this is studies about MSM (A very specific subset of Men who have Sex with Men) which you consistently cherry pick.... and then you present the results as if they a representative of homosexuality as a whole. And you do this despite being corrected on it multiple times, by multiple people, on multiple threads.
A dog down the street escaped from the back yard because a latch on the fence broke. The dog was playing in my front yard, so I grabbed a leash and walked him home, only to discover the broken fence. Back to my house, grabbed a latch I happened to have in the garage, a driver and some screws. Back to the neighbor's house, fixed the fence, topped off the water bowl, secured the dog, and came home.
Don't get me wrong. I considered all my options first. I thought about the overall futility of life without the fear of damnation/promise of paradise, and almost dropped into a nihilistic funk. I considered the hedonistic option of porn, sex and alcohol, but I would have had to make a beer run. Meh, too much effort. The possibility of breaking into my neighbor's house, stealing all his good stuff, and pooping on his kitchen table crossed my mind. It was tempting, as I have no morals of course, but I decided against it as I don't think his kitchen table would have supported my weight.
So I walked his dog and fixed his fence instead. Haven't even mentioned it, because I haven't seen the guy in a week. Does this mean that I need to become a Christian pastor? I am obviously Moderator cut: bleep up this atheist thing.
Of course, if Jeff had been my neighbor, I would have been mean and oppressed him first. A man's got to do what a man's got to do.
So you deserve a medal for doing a good deed? How many bad things have you done? Best yet who determines what is good and what is bad? You?
Hitler believed what he was doing was the right thing to do.
Ultimately when we decided what is right and wrong we make ourselves out to be God.
My opinion is just that, my opinion. Take it or leave it. I do firmly believe that my opinion is aligned with the teachings of God's Word which millions of people believe and live by. If I am wrong then I welcome any Christian brother or sister to correct me.
Yes, that is my point, Jeff. It is YOUR opinion. Your opinion is wrong, but you are free to think that way if you want to continue to be looked down upon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
If we are to believe in atheism then yes that's true. See in your world, everything must have an origin.
You don't just do good things because it's the right thing to do. If that's the case, why are there tribes of cannibals? How come they don't just know that it's wrong to eat people? If everything must have an origin then there is a driving mechanism for your acts of good deeds. That driving mechanism would be an emotional response and weighing risk vs reward. In that sense, yes it is selfish.
While I think most of this article is pure atheist bunk, I found this quote interesting:
THat's another example of sinful man's self serving morality. You can't deny that attractive people in society are treated vastly much better than non-attractive people. And when something tragic happens to a beautiful person, people give them a lot of attention and empathy. A non-attractive person rarely even makes the news even if it is the same tragedy. As a Christian, we are called to love the unlovely. Jesus certainly showed that example when he hung out with the low lives of society and even embraced a leper!
Like my example of the burned face man, he isn't loved. He is rejected by society.
I love how you think you can speak to the mind of all atheists. I love how you KNOW what we are thinking when we do good deeds, and KNOW we only do things for selfish reasons. I also love how you leave out the fact that beautiful people are treated differently by EVERYONE, both religious and not. Your burned face man would be treated differently by EVERYONE, both religious and not.
Would you like me to make blanket statements about fundies? You all hate gay people because you think God wants you to. You all hate atheists because you are scared of us... you are scared because we are gaining ground, and you guys are slowly becoming obsolete. You hate women as well, and simply want them as your maid and servant.
See we can make blanket statements too! Doesn't mean they are true though. You seem to have a problem with this. Saying something, even if you do so 100 times, does not make it any more true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Ahh this old card again. I can play the same card and say that the mean spirited, insulting, and condescending attitude of atheists here shows the lurkers what kind of person you become when you reject God. You and your buddies gang up and bully any Christian who dares to have an opposing position.
There are many Christians and other believers on this site, Jeff, and very few have the issues you do. Do you think there may be a reason for that? YOU are the common denominator, buddy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Ok so you can't back it up then.
Oh, I could, but everyone other than you already knows what I mean, so I won't waste the time. You would just ignore it anyways... You know, like you say we would do if you ACTUALLY posted evidence?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
That sounds more like an instinctive reaction to me. It's called fight or flight. So people rush into danger to help while others feel the need to run away. No one really takes the time to contemplate their action in such a situation.
Oh, ok, so if I help someone out, it is simply an instinctive reaction, but if you do it is divine intervention? You are a joke, man, really.
You honestly think that atheists are incapable of doing good deeds for unselfish reasons, don't you? You are so brainwashed with your born again nonsense, that you actually believe that, don't you?
Let's see, what number is that in the atheist guidebook to always winning the argument? #33?
33. - if all else fails, just demand evidence, but ONLY evidence from a peer reviewed study. In the rare event that they have such a study, find some way to discredit the source. Works every time!!
No you made a statement as fact that atheists can only do good things for selfish reasons. If you have no source for that then it is only your opinion. All you really had to do was say that it is your opinion. How hard would that be to do?
Now that we have established that it is just your opinion tell us why you think we should not be able disagree with your opinion?
It is really that simple, answer a question and we move on.
And by the way you often have asked for proof so I guess you follow the atheists guidebook, perhaps link to it so I can read it too.
This evening I am going to be donating to the Red Cross for the Fort McMurray disaster, at least I was thinking of doing so. But if the donation is only for selfish reasons and I do not like being selfish should I not do so? And I have a problem with knowing what the selfish reason to do so would be. It wont make me feel better about myself or about being an atheists, no one who receives the money will know it came from me and I will not know who got it and I do not expect to ever be in the same situation. So Jeff can you tell me what I can hope to gain by donating to the Red Cross that your pure Christian would not get? I just think that it is the right thing to do. Is that wrong? Would the money be better coming from a Christian? Is the money donated by Muslims as good as that by Christians or is it more like atheists money and is selfish?
So you deserve a medal for doing a good deed? How many bad things have you done? Best yet who determines what is good and what is bad? You?
We all do, together, as a species. I see morality as an ongoing intra-species conversation. Where possible, evidence based. I do not see it as some set in stone rigid law. Let alone one that has been handed to us by an agency outside ourselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81
Ultimately when we decided what is right and wrong we make ourselves out to be God.
Speak for yourself. When I discuss what I think to be right and wrong, I am doing so while making myself out to be human. And I do it BECAUSE I am human.
"God"............. given there is no evidence on offer for any such entity, much less from you........... is seemingly nothing more than a rubber stamp people validate their own moral opinion with where argument, evidence, data and reasoning fails them. The concept of god appears to be less the source or morality, so much as the packaging people wrap their morality up to try and sell it to the mark.
We all do, together, as a species. I see morality as an ongoing intra-species conversation. Where possible, evidence based. I do not see it as some set in stone rigid law. Let alone one that has been handed to us by an agency outside ourselves.
Speak for yourself. When I discuss what I think to be right and wrong, I am doing so while making myself out to be human. And I do it BECAUSE I am human.
"God"............. given there is no evidence on offer for any such entity, much less from you........... is seemingly nothing more than a rubber stamp people validate their own moral opinion with where argument, evidence, data and reasoning fails them. The concept of god appears to be less the source or morality, so much as the packaging people wrap their morality up to try and sell it to the mark.
Reminds me of a quote I saw once....
"You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do. "
So you deserve a medal for doing a good deed? How many bad things have you done? Best yet who determines what is good and what is bad? You?
Hitler believed what he was doing was the right thing to do.
Ultimately when we decided what is right and wrong we make ourselves out to be God.
Have you said this same thing to Vizio, who posts these daily?
Oh, you haven't? Well, why not? Is he special since he holds to your beliefs?
Anyone who has a mind of their own determines what is good and bad for themselves. Yes, you will have people who do horrible things, but that is life Mikee. I would much rather think for myself, and be able to determine on my own, what is right and wrong, than rely on an ancient book to tell me what to think. I am so happy that I am able to do so, and saddened that so many cannot.
Yes, that is my point, Jeff. It is YOUR opinion. Your opinion is wrong, but you are free to think that way if you want to continue to be looked down upon.
You haven't proven me wrong on anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
I love how you think you can speak to the mind of all atheists. I love how you KNOW what we are thinking when we do good deeds, and KNOW we only do things for selfish reasons. I also love how you leave out the fact that beautiful people are treated differently by EVERYONE, both religious and not. Your burned face man would be treated differently by EVERYONE, both religious and not.
You either completely ignore or just didn't get my points which I was careful to present in a polite direct fashion. No, I don't know the minds of every single atheists, but I now the general heart of sinful man and it's not pretty. Yes I stereotype because from my perspective, those stereotypes are 100% true. And you're doing a good job of reinforcing them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
Would you like me to make blanket statements about fundies? You all hate gay people because you think God wants you to. You all hate atheists because you are scared of us... you are scared because we are gaining ground, and you guys are slowly becoming obsolete. You hate women as well, and simply want them as your maid and servant.
Atheists have made blanket statements about fundies from day 1 here. We are all hateful bigots and hypocrites apparently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
There are many Christians and other believers on this site, Jeff, and very few have the issues you do. Do you think there may be a reason for that? YOU are the common denominator, buddy.
If that's true, then why are 90% of the threads on this forum extremely anti-Christian? Why is it only me and a handful of others who are put in the position of defending God and the Bible? Get real. Just because a court ruled on an issue like gay marriage didn't mean that the country over night completely changed their beliefs. There are many many people out there who are not comfortable with the new brand of moral that your side is shoveling down our throats. Over a million people want to boycott Target cuz of this bathroom issue. That should tell you something right there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
Oh, ok, so if I help someone out, it is simply an instinctive reaction, but if you do it is divine intervention? You are a joke, man, really.
No, I would just react instinctively as well like everyone else. That's not morality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
You honestly think that atheists are incapable of doing good deeds for unselfish reasons, don't you? You are so brainwashed with your born again nonsense, that you actually believe that, don't you?
Room temp.
I wonder what your Christians friends would think if you told them it was "born again nonsense". I asked a very valid question about cannibals which you ignored. It's impossible to have a rational conversation with you. You are extremely defensive, unfair and will always argue against anything I write.
Oh, sure. Being told by multiple people, not just me, that you are wrong about why people do good deeds isn't proving you wrong....
Oh wait... yes, yes it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
You either completely ignore or just didn't get my points which I was careful to present in a polite direct fashion. No, I don't know the minds of every single atheists, but I now the general heart of sinful man and it's not pretty. Yes I stereotype because from my perspective, those stereotypes are 100% true. And you're doing a good job of reinforcing them.
Oh, so you don't know our mind, you know our hearts, huh? Well, guess what buddy? You don't know jack about why other people do what they do. You can pretend to all you want, but you don't. No amount of claiming so makes it true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Atheists have made blanket statements about fundies from day 1 here. We are all hateful bigots and hypocrites apparently.
No, only the ones who portray themselves that way are labeled that way. I'm sorry to say, you are one of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
If that's true, then why are 90% of the threads on this forum extremely anti-Christian? Why is it only me and a handful of others who are put in the position of defending God and the Bible? Get real. Just because a court ruled on an issue like gay marriage didn't mean that the country over night completely changed their beliefs. There are many many people out there who are not comfortable with the new brand of moral that your side is shoveling down our throats. Over a million people want to boycott Target cuz of this bathroom issue. That should tell you something right there.
Well, if I had to venture a guess, it would be that the non believers are a bit more vocal, and a bit more willing to start threads. It doesn't mean there are very few believers. You are more than welcome to post threads too, as are any other Christians or believers.
"Our brand of morals", huh? So you think things like equality is not moral? You think letting gay people get married, and get the benefits that come along with it, isn't moral? As far as the bathroom thing, you do realize I hope, that transgender people have ALWAYS used whatever bathroom they want, right? This isn't some new thing here, Jeff. Personally, I don't give a rat's butt who is in my bathroom, as long as they are there to use the bathroom. Also, 1 million people in a country of 350 million isn't even a drop in the bucket....
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
No, I would just react instinctively as well like everyone else. That's not morality.
Oh, so only things that are thoroughly thought out can be selfish for us heathens then, huh? Only things that are thoroughly thought out can be from the good of your heart, huh?
Well, now you are narrowing the goalposts here, Jeff. You are now saying that all people have "instinctive" reactions to help people.... Interesting....
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
I wonder what your Christians friends would think if you told them it was "born again nonsense". I asked a very valid question about cannibals which you ignored. It's impossible to have a rational conversation with you. You are extremely defensive, unfair and will always argue against anything I write.
My Christian friends are not "born again". The friends I have, have always been Christians, so why would I tell them it was "born again nonsense"? In my experience, since you like to throw your extremely limited experience about atheists around, born again Christians are BY FAR the worst of the bunch. They are like children who just found a new toy, and want to tell everyone about it and make sure everyone knows that it is the best thing ever.
I am not defensive, Jeff. I respond almost exclusively to posts that mislead, are untruthful, hypocritical, or something of the like. Hence why I respond to so many of your posts. Make a good point, and I will be happy to agree with you. Go ahead, make one... I'll be waiting.
Oh, sure. Being told by multiple people, not just me, that you are wrong about why people do good deeds isn't proving you wrong....
You mean by atheists who rather chew off their tongue before admitting just once that they are in the wrong? Yeah I kinda disregard that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
Oh, so you don't know our mind, you know our hearts, huh? Well, guess what buddy? You don't know jack about why other people do what they do. You can pretend to all you want, but you don't. No amount of claiming so makes it true.
I know human nature. I made a clear point about how attractive people are treated better which you ignored. I know sinful man. I know that a sin nature is never satisfied. The more you get, the more you want. I've watched enough episodes of Behind the Music alone to see that fact. Here we have people who can obtain everything they want in this life and yet it's not enough. And they are miserable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
No, only the ones who portray themselves that way are labeled that way. I'm sorry to say, you are one of them.
And that is only your baseless opinion. You don't know anythign about my day to day interactions with people so saying I'm a bigot and hate people is pure judgmental garbage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
Well, if I had to venture a guess, it would be that the non believers are a bit more vocal, and a bit more willing to start threads. It doesn't mean there are very few believers. You are more than welcome to post threads too, as are any other Christians or believers.
A bit more vocal? lol You gang up on any Christian 12 to 1 who doesn't support atheists or liberal secular ideology. The common demoninator is YOU argument is an outrageous distortion of truth. Just a few weeks ago, I pointed out how Romulus was treated the exact same way in another thread. Do I need to give you the link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
"Our brand of morals", huh? So you think things like equality is not moral? You think letting gay people get married, and get the benefits that come along with it, isn't moral? As far as the bathroom thing, you do realize I hope, that transgender people have ALWAYS used whatever bathroom they want, right? This isn't some new thing here, Jeff. Personally, I don't give a rat's butt who is in my bathroom, as long as they are there to use the bathroom. Also, 1 million people in a country of 350 million isn't even a drop in the bucket....
If the push for equality is causing greater harm to others then no it's not automatically moral. Is it moral to discriminate against sex offenders? Your side even gives them grief if they paid their debt to society and try to reform their life. A million people isn't just a few either. I know you want to believe that I am the only person in the entire world with these beliefs but that's not reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
Oh, so only things that are thoroughly thought out can be selfish for us heathens then, huh? Only things that are thoroughly thought out can be from the good of your heart, huh?
Well, now you are narrowing the goalposts here, Jeff. You are now saying that all people have "instinctive" reactions to help people.... Interesting....
I'm sorry if you can't understand the difference between instincts and morality. Instincts are our programmed responses to self preservation. Here is a classic example:
Quote:
On 20 July 1981, 24-year-old David Allen Kirwan from La Canada, California, was driving through Yellowstone's Fountain Paint Pot thermal area with his friend Ronald Ratliff and Ratliff's dog Moosie. At about 1:00 P.M. they parked their truck to get out and take a closer look at the hot springs; Moosie escaped from the truck, ran towards nearby Celestine Pool (a thermal spring whose water temperature has been measured at over 200°), jumped in, and began yelping.
Kirwan and Ratliff rushed over to the pool to aid the terrified dog, and Kirwan's attitude indicated he was about to go into the spring after it. According to bystanders, several people tried to warn Kirwan off by yelling at him not to jump in, but he shouted "Like hell I won't!" back at them, took two steps into the pool, and then dove head-first into the boiling spring.
Kirwan swam out to the dog and attempted to take it to shore; he then disappeared underwater, let go of the dog, and tried to climb out of the pool. Ratliff helped pull Kirwan out of the hot spring (resulting in second-degree burns to his own feet), and another visitor led Kirwan to the sidewalk as he reportedly muttered, "That was stupid. How bad am I? That was a stupid thing I did."
Was this man a hero? Most people would say he was stupid. He died in horrific way for nothing because he reacted by instinct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
My Christian friends are not "born again". The friends I have, have always been Christians, so why would I tell them it was "born again nonsense"? In my experience, since you like to throw your extremely limited experience about atheists around, born again Christians are BY FAR the worst of the bunch. They are like children who just found a new toy, and want to tell everyone about it and make sure everyone knows that it is the best thing ever.
I'm sorry but you really don't know much about Christianity then. Every Christian must be born again. This is an essential basic principle of our faith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
I am not defensive, Jeff. I respond almost exclusively to posts that mislead, are untruthful, hypocritical, or something of the like. Hence why I respond to so many of your posts. Make a good point, and I will be happy to agree with you. Go ahead, make one... I'll be waiting.
I may be wrong about some things, but wrong in every single sentence I write? Cmon. So are you denying that attractive people are treated better in society? See when I make a good point, you just ignore it.
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Doesn't mean they are true though. You seem to have a problem with this. Saying something, even if you do so 100 times, does not make it any more true.
