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About a dozen years ago a brush fire started near our house. SOP in L.A. is to use a garden hose to wet down your roof and property since everything is usually tinder dry and the winds spread the embers. I was home and smelled the smoke. Went outside and saw the fire was headed for our neighborhood. 911 calls. I manned one hose and my son another. The neighbors were doing the same. Lots of shouting and warning other neighbors of the fire.
I started, as I tend to do during these things, praying out loud. When it jumped the spot where the firefighters were I prayed, loudly, "Dear God.....Please let a chopper get here quickly. We need a water drop."
The fire was about 50 yards from our house when the chopper came and dropped several hundred gallons of water.... right on my head. The force of the water knocked me onto my butt. I got soaked....and it put out the flames.
Not only does God answer prayers....He seems to have a sense of humor.
(You may now ask why God saved our neighborhood but not the homes of the Canadians. Or the thousands of Californians who have lost homes in massive fires. Here's my answer: I have no idea.)
Dew, while I am very happy you did not lose your house or anything more precious than that, I would still have to disagree.
Your last bit would be 1 question to ask. The other, would be.... Were any other houses saved? If so, were they praying? If not, then how do separate it from mere coincidence? Were they ALL praying? Were they merely caught in the middle of your answered prayer?
The point is, I can see no difference in answered prayers, and simple coincidence. Now don't get me wrong, I know praying may help people on an individual level, I just don't think praying for people's homes to be saved has any measurable effect. Donating money, time, and spreading awareness certainly does though, which was, at least my, greater point. Can't speak to others on here. If you want to use prayer as well as doing other things, then that is great! Just posting "praying for you" on social media, however, is helping no one. Those people would much rather have something they can use to help.
I think you are missing the point NV, at least for me.
Praying has no measurable effect, and saying you are going to pray on social media certainly doesn't have an effect. It would be much more helpful if they were to post links to the Red Cross or other organizations that are helping. I don't think anyone is saying, "Don't pray at all", they are simply saying, "How about instead of boasting online about how you are going to pray, you do something that will actually help the people."
Just my $.02
OK. Im not missing anything from your take, at all, I don't think. What I'm saying ,is that there's no way of knowing what else these people who post prayer wishes are doing, other than offering prayer. I'm not one to post prayer on social media, and I get the annoyance with people who do, nevertheless, those who do so could quite possibly be far more proactive than just posting online. There's no way to tell.
Calling them pious braggargs, out of hand ,is jumping the gun a bit. The OP is bashing an entire segment of society by a select few, Doesn't seem fair to me. Post a link to the Red Cross? Well, the Red Cross is a Christian funded organization, So is the Salvation Army, who gets heavily involved in disaster relief. The people who post these prayer wishes, could very well be on a plane, heading to stricken areas to get their hands dirty as well. Ain't no way to know.
The naked bile and contempt be ajse of posted prayer wishes just doesn't make sense to me, in light of the lack of knowing the people who post them, is all I'm trying to say. It could , as easily be damning someone who has every intention of going far beyond just words.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,926,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber
OK. Im not missing anything from your take, at all, I don't think. What I'm saying ,is that there's no way of knowing what else these people who post prayer wishes are doing, other than offering prayer. I'm not one to post prayer on social media, and I get the annoyance with people who do, nevertheless, those who do so could quite possibly be far more proactive than just posting online. There's no way to tell.
Calling them pious braggargs, out of hand ,is jumping the gun a bit. The OP is bashing an entire segment of society by a select few, Doesn't seem fair to me. Post a link to the Red Cross? Well, the Red Cross is a Christian funded organization, So is the Salvation Army, who gets heavily involved in disaster relief. The people who post these prayer wishes, could very well be on a plane, heading to stricken areas to get their hands dirty as well. Ain't no way to know.
The naked bile and contempt be ajse of posted prayer wishes just doesn't make sense to me, in light of the lack of knowing the people who post them, is all I'm trying to say. It could , as easily be damning someone who has every intention of going far beyond just words.
While the Red Cross started of by a Christian, it is strictly secular and always was. In fact, the official name is the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies. IFRC.org - IFRC
It was NOT a Christian organization. It was started by Henry Dunant, and the reason it is the Red Cross is because Dunant was Swiss, and all he did was take the Swiss flag, and reversed the colors so as not to implicate one country. In fact, he did not want it to be religious, but secular. However, as you well know, the cross is viewed as a symbol of the Crusades that caused so much distress to the Middle East muslims, and to carry on the same work, a sister group using the islamic crescent moon was started; it also was red on a white background, and the two groups combined efforts way back in the early 1900's to work as one.
So BS on the Christian thing, but nice try. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Pagans, Wiccans, Gays, Lesbians, Transgendered, Cisgendered, Whites, Blacks, Native, Asians, mixed and those that bow to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, all fund the Red Cross. Get off your high horse thinking it is a christian thing.
Oh, BTW, I actually checked a few of the people who posted the prayer memes. None of them gave the Red Cross information. My guess, and yes it is a guess, but an educated one, is that where it ended, with those banal, vapid memes.
While the Red Cross started of by a Christian, it is strictly secular and always was. In fact, the official name is the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies. IFRC.org - IFRC
It was NOT a Christian organization. It was started by Henry Dunant, and the reason it is the Red Cross is because Dunant was Swiss, and all he did was take the Swiss flag, and reversed the colors so as not to implicate one country. In fact, he did not want it to be religious, but secular. However, as you well know, the cross is viewed as a symbol of the Crusades that caused so much distress to the Middle East muslims, and to carry on the same work, a sister group using the islamic crescent moon was started; it also was red on a white background, and the two groups combined efforts way back in the early 1900's to work as one.
So BS on the Christian thing, but nice try. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Pagans, Wiccans, Gays, Lesbians, Transgendered, Cisgendered, Whites, Blacks, Native, Asians, mixed and those that bow to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, all fund the Red Cross. Get off your high horse thinking it is a christian thing.
Oh, BTW, I actually checked a few of the people who posted the prayer memes. None of them gave the Red Cross information. My guess, and yes it is a guess, but an educated one, is that where it ended, with those banal, vapid memes.
How convenient that you ignore Salvation Army. Here's another for you. Mercy Ships. They spend millions to give healthcare and dental services to the very needy.
How convenient that you ignore Salvation Army. Here's another for you. Mercy Ships. They spend millions to give healthcare and dental services to the very needy.
You are purposely blind to just how much churches and Christian organizations are out there helping people.
We donate all our goods to either the Sally Ann or the post which I think is a local church run store. Never heard of Mercy Ships are they a US group or do they work internationally? Doctors without Borders is a non religious or that provides medical relief in war torn areas.
The point is the Red Cross is the one organization that is set up to provide this immediate assistance and is able to get funds to those needing it immediately without the red tape necessary for government. That is why a donation to the Red Cross is being matched by governments and why Muslims in Canada are donating directly to it.
I do not agree with the OP but in a time of need PEOPLE donate the time, energy and money to help the victims. I do agree with the OP that prayers alone do not help anyone but the person praying and if that is all they are doing they are not actually doing any good.
The local cat and dog rescuing group is having a fundraiser for the abandoned animals of Fort Mac. At a time of need we get together and help, no place for religion or politics.
By the way you never did explain why I am being selfish for donating to the Red Cross or how I cannot have morals in doing so. My cousin who lost his house in the fire has more money than most people I know and I doubt he will even collect a dime from it, more likely to donate than receive. He actually returned there to open his business to supply the fire fighters and I guess if he had been a Christian that would be a good deed. I donated because I have empathy for those in need.
Dew, while I am very happy you did not lose your house or anything more precious than that, I would still have to disagree.
Your last bit would be 1 question to ask. The other, would be.... Were any other houses saved? If so, were they praying? If not, then how do separate it from mere coincidence? Were they ALL praying? Were they merely caught in the middle of your answered prayer?
That's part of what I call the mystery. After brush fires move through it's not uncommon to see one or two houses untouched amidst rows of house burned to the foundation. Why? Why are the homes of people who pray sometimes burned....while others are spared? Why, when people pray, do they still loose their home? Does God hear the prayers of some over the prayers of others? Does one person praying "cover" everything or is there power in number? Atheists may return to an untouched home while their Christian, praying neighbor looses everything. Why?
I've spent a lot of time asking those questions. I've asked them in prayer groups. I've asked friends who are non-believers. I can't say I've received an answer that satisfies me. Which is why I call it the mystery. (I don't believe in an angry, avenging God....which would probably make it a lot easier. "God stopped blessing us because of gay marriage!!" I don't believe that so.....)
Personally, I pray because it's as natural to me as breathing. As is donating to disaster relief services.
Years ago I wrote a manual on disaster preparation that was distributed by a Fortune 500 company to thousands of employees. It did not contain instructions to pray. It DID contain a list of disaster relief agencies (religious and non-religious) and business that sold earthquake/emergency supplies. I'm very practical.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 05-07-2016 at 11:46 AM..
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,926,708 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
How convenient that you ignore Salvation Army. Here's another for you. Mercy Ships. They spend millions to give healthcare and dental services to the very needy.
You are purposely blind to just how much churches and Christian organizations are out there helping people.
Not many ships can get to Ft. McMurray. The Salvation Army does a lot of good work, it is a christian organization, although they do prothlesize at their soup kitchens, and that is not kosher.
Wonder how much charity work say Southern Baptist or Calvary Churches do? I have two of them, mega church size, right down the road, and never see or hear anything they are involved with in the community.
And no wonder. The Calvary Church doesn't even pretend to do any community work on it's website. Charity? Phfffft. Only if it supports missions in far away places, not homeless in the area. And the Baptist church doesn't even go that far. Never see either at community events. Very insular and self absorbed they are.
So, rather than the prayer thing, if the best choice for disaster relief is the Salvation Army, I have no problem with supporting that. However, reality is that the Red Cross is better set up for that. Just stop with the flippin' "I'll pray" garbage, and actually DO something.
Like my son who spent 48 hours there this week, with no breathing mask, setting up the Emergency Response center. Who saw fires 360 degrees around him, although fortunately the downtown area mostly escaped the destruction. He volunteered to do something. No prayers required, and no one working the disaster is crawling on their knees talking to some space fairy. Like the Kikino Metis settlement who gathered donations and supplied free gas, water and diapers to those motorists stranded on the 100's of miles of the only road out of there because no fuel was available. Like the volunteer firemen, who dropped their jobs in my home village back in Alberta to help fight fires.
Those are the people actually DOING something, not babbling to voices in their head. I better stop now, because, frankly, I'm getting angry. Next time you are moved by an event, DO something first, and if you want to pray after you have, go for it. But prayer is not the default position to take.
How convenient that you ignore Salvation Army. Here's another for you. Mercy Ships. They spend millions to give healthcare and dental services to the very needy.
You are purposely blind to just how much churches and Christian organizations are out there helping people.
And how is that worse than you insulting atheist who help people? I claim that Christians and atheists who are good people help others whereas your claim is that Christians help others for pure reasons and atheists only for selfish reasons. How is that your opinion is not bias or blinded? How do you not see the hatred and blindness of your own posts?
And how is that worse than you insulting atheist who help people? I claim that Christians and atheists who are good people help others whereas your claim is that Christians help others for pure reasons and atheists only for selfish reasons. How is that your opinion is not bias or blinded? How do you not see the hatred and blindness of your own posts?
I need an internet meme:
Call you stupid, a bigot, person of hate, stupid, a poor excuse for humanity, spends every day ripping apart people's faith with zero ounce of respect or friendliness
< INSERT PICTURE OF ATHEIST >
Wants you to believe they are really good caring people.
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