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the good news is you get to keep science. you are not giving it up. you are not letting it go. you are learning a new technical specialty, the Laws of the Universe. it is in addition to the science you know. it is not instead of. it addresses areas which science does not. you will always have science forever and ever. and can keep it in your pocket and carry it with you always.
the bad news is you don't get to keep debate. the win-lose mentality, the one-upmanship, the need to feel superior, all those are HUGE obstacles.
this is great, you are already doing the homework. excellent!
the power of the universe is at your command. you direct it and use it through your thought, speech, action, and feelings. you are literally creating everything you experience in your life. you either do it consciously (through awareness and attention and intention) or passively allow it to happen "by default" and then it is being haphazardly driven by whatever random thoughts or beliefs you have that may not be serving you well at all and creating less than optimum results.
when you can identify these within yourself, then you are able to edit them and get results. let's list some you've already identified and put them on the menu sorted into categories. this is the menu that you order from, and the universe delivers to you in your daily life. Menu categories are intention, resistance, beliefs, commands. An example, taking from some recent posts, change it and make it your own.
this is what i want or desire / this is my intention
safety in every place in my life
protection
learning
i want to look further
i want to move forward, expand, advance to the next level
clarity
truth
i am willing to take on new ideas with merit
i want to know more about __________
i want to understand more about _____________
these are obstacles or barriers / this is resistance to taking the next step
looking to others to tell me what to believe, instead of finding it out for myself
science must validate this for me to consider it
if it is not part of science i am unwilling to explore it
i require evidence before i take on a new idea
an idea must have merit for me to consider it (define merit for myself)
how do i determine what to believe
how do i know what to do next
how do i know if this will work
these are related beliefs / that i have identified / keep the ones that move you forward; revise the ones that don't allow you to advance
i am curious
i am excited about learning new things
only science is true
if it can't be proven by science then it is not valid
the way to get to the truth is through debate
for a belief to have merit it must be ___________
it's not safe to try new things because ___________
this makes me feel safe ________
here are some commands / it's like giving your order to the waitress at the restaurant, you are ordering off the menu, you are telling the Universe send me this
send me increased clarity
identify the truth for me in this situation
show me the next step in advancing to the next level
keep me safe and protected at all times and in every situation
only send me information guidance and assistance that is safe in every way
i call forth the power of this ____ (person, place, thing, animal) for protection *
increase my desire for that which is good for me; remove my desire for that which is not good for me
i release that which no longer serves me
show me how to know what to believe
*[think of a time or place or person or animal or setting that makes you feel safe and protected; you are calling forth that. it can be real or not. I've never even seen a white tiger or snow leopard but to me they feel strong, powerful. I was in a horrible 3-car collision that nearly took my life and there was considerable trauma, in recovering from that accident i got a huge 5-foot long stuffed white tiger and kept it in my room for years, for me it evoked strong protection while i recovered from the trauma. If you feel an affinity to someplace powerful in nature like Mt. Rainier or around big trees, call forth that. when i was a kid in a chaotic unsafe house growing up, i would go hide in the woods and climb a large pine tree to get away from the chaos indoors. To this day i only ever always live with large evergreens right outside my window. it has always felt like they protect me and they are looking out for me. this part does not have to make sense to anyone except you, it is all about what for you evokes a strong sense of safety and protection. It can be a guardian angel. It can be a hero you admire from your own life or from history.]
Part of learning is realizing that what you currently know might be wrong. You have been shown where this is the case, where your beliefs are unfounded because you have no evidence to support any of your assertions. I'm sorry, but you aren't allowed to deflect criticism by somehow claiming that you are above participating in debate but are given carte blanche to state whatever you like without being challenged.
Your unsubstantiated claims about the existence of a soul/spirit and that the universe gives what you want at your command are not supported by the evidence, so you must expect to be called on it if you continue to do so.
Your unsubstantiated claims about the existence of a soul/spirit and that the universe gives what you want at your command are not supported by the evidence
there is ample evidence, and it is substantiated by people putting it into practice in their own lives.
the only substantiation that matters in the arena of personal growth is that which a person can verify on their own.
practical results matter to me, that is all. not arguing, not debating, not proving anything to anybody.
no one can learn for you. no one can grow for you.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-31-2016 at 10:49 PM..
if you keep on doing the same thing you have always done, you will keep on getting the same results.
Not necessarily. For example on the discussion of gods, after lives and theism one of the things "I have always done" is ask theists what the substantiation for their position is.
And that does NOT always get the same results. It gets different results per person. From people like yourself and bUU it gets dodge, misrepresentation, retreat and dishonesty.... and most recently simply ignoring of my posts entirely.
But from others, it can get very thought out responses and some effort. The "results" I get from "doing what I always do" are as individual therefore as the people I do them with. And I fully expect the NEXT theist I do it with to be different again.
So no, the mantra of "Do the same thing, get the same results" is by far not always true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
however until your desire for xyz, is strong enough to overcome your resistance to abc, you will remain in the same place.
And yet what is great about people like myself is that the resistance to things like there being a god, an after life and so forth is precisely zero. I have absolutely no problem with those things being true if those things are in fact true. No problem at all.
The only question for me is whether there IS any reason to think those things exist. And thus far no one has ever shown me there is, least of all you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
the wall you are hitting is you will never get evidence from someone else. however you will get substantiation from your own experience. you hold the key. you are in charge of all the parameters.
Thankfully seeking evidence from others is not the ONLY avenue I use for obtaining truth in the world. I in fact have MANY avenues. On this forum however seeking it from others is clearly one of the only avenues I have. And since that is all you see of me, given you know literally nothing about me in real life outside this forum, you would be forgiven for making the error of assuming seeking evidence from others is all I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
the good news is you get to keep science. you are not giving it up. you are not letting it go. you are learning a new technical specialty, the Laws of the Universe.
I am not seeing the distinction between the two, or what you think you mean by this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
the bad news is you don't get to keep debate. the win-lose mentality
If YOU think debate is about "win lose" or feeling superior then is is you who are simply doing it wrong, not anyone else. The purpose of debate is not to win over anyone else or feel superior. The purpose of debate is to robustly throw arguments and ideas into the arena together and see if when combined they can highlight the strengths of flaws in the other.... so that then those ideas and arguments can be modified to reflect that discovery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
there is ample evidence, and it is substantiated by people putting it into practice in their own lives.
That would be evidence of the EFFECT of implementing an idea. Which is not at all what people are asking you for. They are asking for evidence that the idea is in fact true.
You can show all the evidence you want of people implementing a belief in their life, but that does not for one SECOND validate the truth value OF the belief.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
no one can learn for you. no one can grow for you.
And yet we have teachers who realize that WHILE you have to learn for yourself, it is their job to highlight for you the data to be learned. Which is what, as I point out time and time and time and time again now, you are simply dodging and avoiding doing..... all the while acting like someone else has the problem that only you are displaying through your myriad of cop out narratives and dodges.
That's where we must disagree. Without a base or rationality,there is no way of knowing whether you are on a journey of discovery or leading yourself up the garden path.
That is a very disingenuous summation of what the user has been saying to you.
That is a very disingenuous characterization of the interchange. You cannot throw around words like "disingenuous" when you and the poster you're trying to defend have been behaving in such an churlish manner.
That is a very disingenuous characterization of the interchange. You cannot throw around words like "disingenuous" when you and the poster you're trying to defend have been behaving in such an churlish manner.
Except I have not been behaving thus at all, and in fact the only one with the poor behavior here is you given how blatantly you have misrepresented and lied about what I said, then ran away without apology or retraction when you were called on it.
And the user who was thus misrepresented also came back to also agree with my "characterization of the interchange" too so you might want to note that before you ride in like a knight in rusty Armour to defend someone that can not be defended.
But if you want to stop throwing out assertions like "disingenuous" and "churlish" and actually.... like I did when I myself used the word "disingenuous"...... explain how and why those labels apply.... then by all means make the attempt. Throwing out the word and running off is not useful, not clever, not impressive, and not honest. Observe when I used it I THEN went into great length as to WHY I think the label correctly applies. Try it some time because you say "throw around words like" when in fact the only one THROWING them around is you. You. Just you. Only you. And you.
But certainly an MO you have displayed with some dedication and gusto is to engage in some behaviour "X" and then randomly and falsely accuse everyone but yourself of engaging in behavior "X". I am not sure who you think this is fooling, or who it might be fooling, other than you yourself.... but I am afraid I see RIGHT through it.
Because there is a CHASM of difference between simply throwing labels like that around and running away, and actually making those labels stick. I stand on the latter side of that chasm, you on the former. Come across any time you like.
Last edited by Nozzferrahhtoo; 06-01-2016 at 05:37 AM..
That's where we must disagree. Without a base or rationality,there is no way of knowing whether you are on a journey of discovery or leading yourself up the garden path.
But if you'd just stop thinking for yourself and follow what [I'm telling you] Jesus says, everything will be fine. Can I put you down for a 10% donation?
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