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I am a Gnostic Christian (but often times, not the most Christ-like person, I admit) and I do not take any mythology, including my own, literally and I do not want mine, or anyone else's religion, made into law. Hence, I am a die-hard secularist. What is secularism? It is simply the belief that religion and state should be separate and that religion should be a personal thing.
Have your church, have your religious institutions, go live among those who only believe what you believe if that is what you want, just LEAVE ME AND EVERYONE ELSE OUT OF IT.
Do not pass laws based on what your religion says. Instead, pass laws based on logic and reason (which I hope we can all agree on to a point) Do not preach religion in public schools. Want to teach kids that the world was created in seven days (and ignore how those days couldn't have been 24 hour periods because the sun was created after) and teach them that dinosaurs died in the flood? Do it in Sunday school or a private school. Public schools should only teach the facts. What your religion does with those facts is of no concern to either science or the schools, but those facts should be taught.
I want a secular government...and the biggest thing scaring away the vast majority of Americans who agree are the neckbearded, My Little Pony addicted and smug collection of basement dwellers we like to call "reddit atheists".
What do they want? Do they want to convince the 80% or so of Americans who believe in some kind of higher power to abandon it all based on endless rants on the internet? Do you really think taking every opportunity to repeat the same Dawkins/Harris talking points are going to convince people to stop using their religion to pass laws against gays? Do you really think that cries in countless comment sections of "ur a dumby for believing in an invisible sky daddy!" are somehow going to make people change their minds on restricting abortion?
I say the opposite holds true: the more smug, loud and annoying you are, the more the Christians are going to run into the arms of the fundamentalist and agree to pass laws based on their understanding of their religion and the more Taliban-esque America will become. The constant, relentless whining about religion as a whole, as opposed to religious based laws, will no doubt make those people feel under attack and make them elect people who will push their religion on everyone. The more you whine about things from "In God we Trust" on money to the fact that Sunday school isn't taxed like corporations, the more fodder you provide for the Jerry Falwell's of the world.
And why is it that so many self-proclaimed "realist" can see that it is NOT realistic to think you will be able to make the hundreds of millions of believers in America and beyond abandon their religion? It is not going to happen.
BUT, if you try to act like the "rational humans" you claim to be, than maybe you can convince them to keep their religion to themselves and not push it on you. That is a lot more of a realistic goal than trying to make everyone an atheist. Why not put down the Dawkins and Hitchens for a minute and just quote the founding fathers who themselves believed in God yet wanted secular government? Why not remind people that the religion in public sphere thing is a new concept for America and that religion will be find without having it shoved down the throats of those who don't want it?
Why do you have to go from "I am not a Christian, hence I don't want those laws imposed on me" to "you're dumb for believing in sky-daddies!"?
The minute you mock and attack all religions is the minute the religious majority feels under attack, and when they feel under attack they feel the need to counter attack, usually by electing awful people and passing awful laws. So instead of constantly attacking, why not try just politely advocating for secularism and explaining how religious people have NOTHING TO FEAR from secular government?
Sorry...but this kind of behavior is not helping the cause of separation of church and state:
^ sorry reddit/atheists, that little fantasy of yours is not going to come true. But maybe, just maybe, if you stop being such pricks we can actually win a true secular government.
What do you mean by 'Gnostic Christian?' (I understand Gnosticism and Christianity, but, am unclear about your meaning, based on other aspects of your post). Without that clarification, your position (and rant) is difficult to understand.
What do you mean by 'Gnostic Christian?' Without that clarification, your position (and rant) is difficult to understand.
Actually, the statement had very little to do with my own religion...in fact it had nothing to do with my own religion as secularism is something anyone, regardless of religious affiliation (or lack there of) can support.
The minute you mock and attack all religions is the minute the religious majority feels under attack, and when they feel under attack they feel the need to counter attack, usually by electing awful people and passing awful laws. So instead of constantly attacking, why not try just politely advocating for secularism and explaining how religious people have NOTHING TO FEAR from secular government?
Well that is pretty much my approach in Real Life. Online discussions are generally designed for debate, and that's a rather different situation. Our interlocutors come here voluntarily; no one holds a gun to their head. And it then becomes obvious in short order whose skin tends to be thinner: as in all things, the person with the weak or dead-on-arrival argument who just wants to assert stuff rather than substantiate it in some way.
Some come to places like this for honest debate on a level playing field. Some come looking for drama or to feed their persecution narrative or to demand "respect" or whatever. Sometimes people on either side can be pointlessly harsh, or spectacularly oversensitive. It happens. And the solution is simple; just leave. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
But in everyday meatspace, of course. I don't give a fig what people get up to in their clubhouses. I don't even ask which one they go to.
What do you mean by 'Gnostic Christian?' (I understand Gnosticism and Christianity, but, am unclear about your meaning, based on other aspects of your post). Without that clarification, your position (and rant) is difficult to understand.
He is probably referring to the knowledge claim that god is knowable ("I know god personally") as opposed to agnostic theism (I don't know for sure if there's a god, or don't think such a thing is knowable, but lean toward believing in one or more gods anyway).
There is also gnostic atheism (I know there is no god -- quite rare) and agnostic atheism (I don't know if there's a god but see no valid reason to believe in any -- very common).
Well that is pretty much my approach in Real Life. Online discussions are generally designed for debate, and that's a rather different situation. Our interlocutors come here voluntarily; no one holds a gun to their head. And it then becomes obvious in short order whose skin tends to be thinner: as in all things, the person with the weak or dead-on-arrival argument who just wants to assert stuff rather than substantiate it in some way.
Some come to places like this for honest debate on a level playing field. Some come looking for drama or to feed their persecution narrative or to demand "respect" or whatever. Sometimes people on either side can be pointlessly harsh, or spectacularly oversensitive. It happens. And the solution is simple; just leave. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
But in everyday meatspace, of course. I don't give a fig what people get up to in their clubhouses. I don't even ask which one they go to.
The problem is it happens off line too. Honestly, do you think this will make people more or less likely to vote for some religious fanatic:
Sounds like somebody got their ass handed to them on Reddit.
Reddit is for cucks. You can guess where I am on the internet by that statement...
And online debates are meaningless when people are trying to use their religion to justify controlling women's health or legalizing discrimination against GLBT people based on their understanding of religious texts.
Too bad most atheists today are more concerned with petty garbage than they are interested in promoting a true secular society.
And reddit/atheism is a hugbox for people who have no idea what they are talking about but just have an axe to grind against their own religious upbringing and/or former belief system.
Reddit is for cucks. You can guess where I am on the internet by that statement...
And online debates are meaningless when people are trying to use their religion to justify controlling women's health or legalizing discrimination against GLBT people based on their understanding of religious texts.
Too bad most atheists today are more concerned with petty garbage than they are interested in promoting a true secular society.
And reddit/atheism is a hugbox for people who have no idea what they are talking about but just have an axe to grind against their own religious upbringing and/or former belief system.
link?
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