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As a former atheist, I recognize quite clearly that sin is fun, and I did not want to get involved in religion and submit to God.
So, yes--some of it is simply because an atheist chooses not to believe.
Having said that, the reason you choose not to believe is because you are in the same condition every man is born into -- your heart is deceitfully wicked (as was mine). God had to regenerate me so I could believe. If he hasn't regenerated you, it's quite easy to see why you don't believe.
And for the record, I'd avoid reading Dan Barker as if he's some kind of expert on Christianity. If I understand correctly, he worked with Katherine Kuhlman, a noted heretic. He was never really big into theology, but was instead more focused on the signs and wonders thing. When he really understood that those things were a bunch of bunk, he went atheist. He doesn't seem to have really grasped what Christianity was really all about.
He is a graduate of Azusa Pacific University and pastored in Quaker, AOG and independent charistmatic churches. His connection to Kuhlman appears to have been as an unpaid "choir librarian for her Los Angeles appearances" at around the age of 16, something I would not hold his adult self particularly responsible for.
I wonder how you know how "big" he was into theology? Asuza is a Wesleyan / Holiness evangelical university and while I am guessing their theology isn't in 100% agreement with your dogma, I see no evidence that they are less "into" theology than any other pastoral training-ground.
Your thesis seems to be that if he had really understood Christianity as you do, he would not have concluded it was "all bunk". Of course the irony of this is that Holiness Christians can look at the deconverts like me who were more into your particular evangelical brand, and say that I failed to consider their "correct" take on Christianity and prematurely declared it "all bunk".
Can atheist truly not grasp that some people simply see evidence of God and want to follow a particular faith and see no point in not believing in God?
Is the concept of simple belief really this hard to grasp that atheist have to resort to less than desireable behavior, disparaging remarks and name calling?
Answer those two questions without one disparaging remark about one's faith.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with someone believing in a god. If you read comments from theists they find it wrong that other believers have a different faith. I have problems with those who attempt to use their faith to limit the rights of others or wish for their faith to be able to decide epwhat is and what is not science.
IMHO most people of faith do not try to do any of this. If you wish to believe in a god it does not make you a better person or a worse person. It seems to me the name calling goes both ways. Why do some theists insist that atheists are all immoral or mean or evil? Why can't theist grasp that not believing in their god is not hating them or their god and does not show that they had to have had terrible experiences with religion in the past. Even your post appears to be a put down on those who are different from yourself.
There are two kinds of people I can never hope to understand: People who had happy childhoods and loving families, and people who don't believe in SOMETHING.
The deluded folks I'll never understand are the ones who equate not believe in some imaginary sky fairy with "believing in nothing".
Personally, though, I think there are few such people - mostly, it's just a feeble strawman at which certain people flail away for lack of anything cogent to offer.
I gave you my personal experience. As an atheist I wanted to sin, and I avoided discussion and belief in God.
I've read his bio. He was a Pentecostal who was into Katherine Kuhlman. This is no disrespect to Pentecostals in general...but they just generally are not known for their detailed theological positions. Besides that, though, it's clear from just hearing the guy tell his story he just didn't know what real Christianity is.
Other than the fact that he left Christianity, which you choose to interpret as not properly understanding it , name what you think he didn't understand about Christianity?
In any event, what does this have to do with showing that Barker left so he could lead a sinful life ?
This is not another thread about the evidence or lack thereof for a god, so let's please not waste time going there . This is about some statements I routinely see here suggesting that the reason atheists and agnostics don't want to believe in God is because they want to sin. Which makes no sense in and of itself . But I want to directly address this oft repeated statement .
Do theists really believe that the only reason atheists and agnostics don't believe is because they want to sin?
Can theists truly not grasp that some people simply see no evidence of a God , and certainly none that might want a person to follow a particular faith, and see no point in believing in something like this without solid evidence ?
On what basis would a theist who believes this claim that someone like Stephen Hawking just wants to sin ? What evidence would a theist have that Sam Harris's atheism is rooted in a desire to pretend God doesn't exist so he can sin without guilt ? What about Dan Barker , a former Pentecostal preacher who decided he no longer believed ? What evidence would a theist have that Dan Barker left the faith so he could sin at will?
Is the concept of simple disbelief in invisible and silent supernatural beings really this hard to grasp , that theists have to resort to these kinds of allegations ?
the answers are
No
No
sin at will? thats stupid.
Fundies resort to the exact same tactics as many other people use.
Warped lines of logic to support a false world view or push blame off to "something else"; real or imagined.
There are lots of mental illnesses.
This is not another thread about the evidence or lack thereof for a god, so let's please not waste time going there . This is about some statements I routinely see here suggesting that the reason atheists and agnostics don't want to believe in God is because they want to sin. Which makes no sense in and of itself . But I want to directly address this oft repeated statement .
Do theists really believe that the only reason atheists and agnostics don't believe is because they want to sin?
Can theists truly not grasp that some people simply see no evidence of a God , and certainly none that might want a person to follow a particular faith, and see no point in believing in something like this without solid evidence ?
On what basis would a theist who believes this claim that someone like Stephen Hawking just wants to sin ? What evidence would a theist have that Sam Harris's atheism is rooted in a desire to pretend God doesn't exist so he can sin without guilt ? What about Dan Barker , a former Pentecostal preacher who decided he no longer believed ? What evidence would a theist have that Dan Barker left the faith so he could sin at will?
Is the concept of simple disbelief in invisible and silent supernatural beings really this hard to grasp , that theists have to resort to these kinds of allegations ?
Anyone who truly follows Jesus has no argument with unbelievers. We do have an obligation to live and demonstrate who Jesus is in our lives. If you look at someone and see nothing of Jesus---it's because He isn't there.
Atheists and agnostics can demonstrate the love of God just as much as anybody. And there is no requirement for belief to demonstrate that. Those wishing to close the gates of heaven to others place high value on what one believes about Jesus. Those trusting in Jesus are comfortable leaving heaven and hell in God's hands.
And some of us aren't interested in leaving you out anyway.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 06-11-2016 at 04:22 PM..
Anyone who truly follows Jesus has no argument with unbelievers. We do have an obligation to live and demonstrate who Jesus is in our lives. If you look at someone and see nothing of Jesus---it's because He isn't there.
Atheists and agnostics can demonstrate the love of God just as much as anybody. And there is no requirement for belief to demonstrate that. Those wishing to close the gates of heaven to others place high value on what one believes about Jesus. Those trusting in Jesus are comfortable leaving heaven and hell in God's hands.
And some of us aren't interested in leaving you out anyway.
The deluded folks I'll never understand are the ones who equate not believe in some imaginary sky fairy with "believing in nothing".
Personally, though, I think there are few such people - mostly, it's just a feeble strawman at which certain people flail away for lack of anything cogent to offer.
And this is why I have trouble talking with these people: they do not know how to read anything anyway but ABSOLUTELY LITERALLY! I should avoid saying things like "it's raining cats and dogs" least they post link after link to articles on weather patterns and studies of meteorology proving that it is impossible for Tabbies and Pitt Bulls to fall from the clouds.
When I say "something" in this context it should be obvious that I mean something "SUPERNATURAL"! As in not necessarily a personal God or anything but some kind of something beyond our feeble human ability to understand that is beyond us. It need not be "God", but it could be something like Brahman or the Tao or some other such thing.
And yes, most people who are not "religious" do believe in something (again, as in something IN THEN SPIRITUAL SENSE)
Anyone who truly follows Jesus has no argument with unbelievers. We do have an obligation to live and demonstrate who Jesus is in our lives. If you look at someone and see nothing of Jesus---it's because He isn't there.
Atheists and agnostics can demonstrate the love of God just as much as anybody. And there is no requirement for belief to demonstrate that. Those wishing to close the gates of heaven to others place high value on what one believes about Jesus. Those trusting in Jesus are comfortable leaving heaven and hell in God's hands.
And some of us aren't interested in leaving you out anyway.
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