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Regarding burden of proof and babies being born atheist or theist , it's simple logic . Humans , even babies and children, either believe in God or they do not . If they do, they are theist . If they do not possess any sort of belief ,they are atheist . Being presented with a choice and making that choice has nothing to do with it . You either possess a belief, or you do not . How you came to that state is immaterial to the differentiation between atheist and theist. It is merely a description of "what is". And since children do not possess belief in gods until they are taught to believe in the existence of such , until they ARE taught this and they accept the teaching , they are atheist .
Theists hate this concept, and understandably so , but this doesn't alter the facts any . Atheism is not a choice one makes after reviewing all the evidence, it is merely the state one is in until one ACCEPTS evidence of God belief .
Humans are atheist by default . They become theists by accepting what they are taught ( mostly how it happens today) or by coming to this conclusion on their own in an attempt to make sense of the world and relying on non scientific explanations for things that are mysterious and confusing .
Last edited by wallflash; 07-17-2016 at 08:04 PM..
Regarding burden of proof and babies being born atheist or theist , it's simple logic . Humans , even babies and children, either believe in God or they do not . If they do, they are theist . If they do not possess any sort of belief ,they are atheist . Being presented with a choice and making that choice has nothing to do with it . You either possess a belief, or you do not . How you came to that state is immaterial to the differentiation between atheist and theist. It is merely a description of "what is". And since children do not possess belief in gods until they are taught to believe in the existence of such , until they ARE taught this and they accept the teaching , they are atheist .
Theists hate this concept, and understandably so , but this doesn't alter the facts any . Atheism is not a choice one makes after reviewing all the evidence, it is merely the state one is in until one ACCEPTS evidence of God belief .
Humans are atheist by default . They become theists by accepting what they are taught ( mostly how it happens today) or by coming to this conclusion on their own in an attempt to make sense of the world and relying on non scientific explanations for things that are mysterious and confusing .
Making huge stretches and assumptions here.
If you have children, don't you remember 'why'? At every single aspect of life?
To counter... I was born atheist. Life taught me there is more, which I call God, at 40. Now I care not to 'spread the word'. Don't think that's what Christ would want or expect me to do. I think Christ would want me to treat others as I want to be treated and operate under humility and forgiveness.
Regarding burden of proof and babies being born atheist or theist , it's simple logic . Humans , even babies and children, either believe in God or they do not . If they do, they are theist . If they do not possess any sort of belief ,they are atheist . Being presented with a choice and making that choice has nothing to do with it . You either possess a belief, or you do not . How you came to that state is immaterial to the differentiation between atheist and theist. It is merely a description of "what is". And since children do not possess belief in gods until they are taught to believe in the existence of such , until they ARE taught this and they accept the teaching , they are atheist .
Theists hate this concept, and understandably so , but this doesn't alter the facts any . Atheism is not a choice one makes after reviewing all the evidence, it is merely the state one is in until one ACCEPTS evidence of God belief .
Humans are atheist by default . They become theists by accepting what they are taught ( mostly how it happens today) or by coming to this conclusion on their own in an attempt to make sense of the world and relying on non scientific explanations for things that are mysterious and confusing .
No...not in my view.
As part of "ALL", everyone (including babies and children) IS "GOD".
Are those that don't know they are humans or mammals or whatever race or gender they are, not so, simply based upon their ignorance of it?
It doesn't matter the reason for their lack of knowledge, that doesn't change what is.
It is "THE ALL GOD SHOW", all the time. Anywhere, everywhere, anything and anyone.
Regarding burden of proof and babies being born atheist or theist , it's simple logic . Humans , even babies and children, either believe in God or they do not . If they do, they are theist . If they do not possess any sort of belief ,they are atheist . Being presented with a choice and making that choice has nothing to do with it . You either possess a belief, or you do not . How you came to that state is immaterial to the differentiation between atheist and theist. It is merely a description of "what is". And since children do not possess belief in gods until they are taught to believe in the existence of such , until they ARE taught this and they accept the teaching , they are atheist .
Theists hate this concept, and understandably so , but this doesn't alter the facts any . Atheism is not a choice one makes after reviewing all the evidence, it is merely the state one is in until one ACCEPTS evidence of God belief .
Humans are atheist by default . They become theists by accepting what they are taught ( mostly how it happens today) or by coming to this conclusion on their own in an attempt to make sense of the world and relying on non scientific explanations for things that are mysterious and confusing .
Making huge stretches and assumptions here.
If you have children, don't you remember 'why'? At every single aspect of life?
To counter... I was born atheist. Life taught me there is more, which I call God, at 40. Now I care not to 'spread the word'. Don't think that's what Christ would want or expect me to do. I think Christ would want me to treat others as I want to be treated and operate under humility and forgiveness.
Indeed. According wallflash's foolish rhetoric the majority of atheists (infants) are ignorant and uneducated and then they learn better and become theists. LOL Such a silly implication must make one wonder why people would employ rhetoric like this. There is only one rational reason, intolerance. They have a driving need to shove their beliefs on other people and so they bend over backwards into total irrationality in order to justify this.
BUT...I can, in fact, substantiate the concept I endorse (Pantheism) with Objective Proof of its validity...
Only by doing what you do...claim that 'god' is anything you want it to be, even your water bottle... and, as your water bottle can be proven to exist then therefore god exists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer
Who ever suggested that atheism is a concept of nothing? .
People like GldnRain, who call their bicycle saddle 'god' and think that 'god' is thus proven to exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stymie13
My 2 cents is, if I don't believe in something, I rarely talk or think about it.
Me neither...unless people tell me that I'd better believe in it or I'm going to be tortured for eternity or unless people try to tell me it's the truth without being able to show that it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash
Regarding burden of proof and babies being born atheist or theist , it's simple logic . Humans , even babies and children, either believe in God or they do not . If they do, they are theist . If they do not possess any sort of belief ,they are atheist . Being presented with a choice and making that choice has nothing to do with it . You either possess a belief, or you do not . How you came to that state is immaterial to the differentiation between atheist and theist. It is merely a description of "what is". And since children do not possess belief in gods until they are taught to believe in the existence of such , until they ARE taught this and they accept the teaching , they are atheist .
Theists hate this concept, and understandably so , but this doesn't alter the facts any . Atheism is not a choice one makes after reviewing all the evidence, it is merely the state one is in until one ACCEPTS evidence of God belief .
Humans are atheist by default . They become theists by accepting what they are taught ( mostly how it happens today) or by coming to this conclusion on their own in an attempt to make sense of the world and relying on non scientific explanations for things that are mysterious and confusing .
Indeed. According wallflash's foolish rhetoric the majority of atheists (infants) are ignorant and uneducated and then they learn better and become theists. LOL Such a silly implication must make one wonder why people would employ rhetoric like this. There is only one rational reason, intolerance. They have a driving need to shove their beliefs on other people and so they bend over backwards into total irrationality in order to justify this.
As Raffs says; Wallflash is spot On. You surely can't be overlooking the fact that infants are born ignorant and uneducated. If not why do we spend time instructing and educating them? It is obvious that this is a fact whether we consider them born theist or atheist.
It doesn't actually deprecate atheism at all because we are aware that atheism does not in fact guarantee superior intellect or education. It merely denotes a lack of a god -belief. And that could be that one's brain has ceased to operate as much as one has considered all the arguments and come to the well -informed and reasoned decision that the arguments for gods do not stack up.
No. We are all born atheists and have to be taught a religion.
Now there is an argument about an innate 'knowledge' of God. I am willing to credit an innate (an evolved instinctive) need to trust in some higher and protecting entity; the "God shaped bottle" of C.S Lewis fits it well (though he may simply have been craftily insinuating that we all Need God in our lives - we don't). But the form, nature, abilities and preferences of this being have to be taught, and that is where the atheist becomes instructed in theism (and either believes it or not) and of course your local religion is only too eager to take this work on. And indeed, give you hard time (if it is allowed to) if you don't let it.
I think you should now withdraw your well -poisoning epithets 'foolish' and 'rhetoric'. Wallflash was reasoning better than you were.
If you have children, don't you remember 'why'? At every single aspect of life?
To counter... I was born atheist. Life taught me there is more, which I call God, at 40. Now I care not to 'spread the word'. Don't think that's what Christ would want or expect me to do. I think Christ would want me to treat others as I want to be treated and operate under humility and forgiveness.
Nothing you wrote countered my point. You were born an atheist . As you grew older , life threw some things at you , and you responded by accepting the cultural belief in a god as an answer to those curveballs and questions .
Indeed. According wallflash's foolish rhetoric the majority of atheists (infants) are ignorant and uneducated and then they learn better and become theists. LOL Such a silly implication must make one wonder why people would employ rhetoric like this. There is only one rational reason, intolerance. They have a driving need to shove their beliefs on other people and so they bend over backwards into total irrationality in order to justify this.
The only thing foolish here is your reasoning , and possibly a misunderstanding of what atheism is . Some want atheism to be a belief system one chooses, much as one chooses theism . This is incorrect, atheism is nothing more than a LACK of theism . That's what the word means . NO-THEISM. It is then not a choice between two opposing things , but an absence of a belief in something .
And since babies and children naturally lack this belief until taught them , they do not possess it . Hence, they are natural atheists .
As I said, although this fact discombobulates theists, it is nonetheless rational logic . If you don't possess belief , you are an atheist, regardless of why this lack exists . Period .
Perhaps the less militant sounding but identical term non-theist makes the point a little better and in a less threatening way for some .
Last edited by wallflash; 07-18-2016 at 03:55 AM..
Can atheist truly not grasp that some people simply see evidence of God and want to follow a particular faith and see no point in not believing in God?
Is the concept of simple belief really this hard to grasp that atheist have to resort to less than desireable behavior, disparaging remarks and name calling?
Answer those two questions without one disparaging remark about one's faith.
Not an Atheist here but not a Christian either. Some people are just not opened minded enough to believe in intelligent design not matter what name you give him/her. I see just as many negative remarks by Christians as I do Atheist here in this forum. It's always been give & take always will too, of course if some would just let people believe what they want, instead of preaching to them then I doubt we would have anything to debate about.
I was born atheist. Life taught me there is more, which I call God, at 40. Now I care not to 'spread the word'. Don't think that's what Christ would want or expect me to do. I think Christ would want me to treat others as I want to be treated and operate under humility and forgiveness.
Well, congratulations. You have a excellent attitude about your own religious beliefs and those of others. I'd say you are on the same page as most atheists are. There really is no argument on this point.
Unfortunately, the world at large does not have the same attitude as you do. Countless millions of religious people do try to spread the word, convert people and exert political influence.
Those particular religious people have no idea how ridiculous it sounds to other people that an invisible spirit being who made the universe transformed into a man who sacrificed himself for all of humanity. And if you don't believe in this invisible spirit being, then you will not be saved when you die but instead be condemned for eternity.
At least you seem to be able to understand how that sounds like an intriguing science-fiction story to some people. It could make for a good Star Trek episode.
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