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On 1 Cor 15 I can only repeat what I have already said and shown. Over and over Paul talks only of the relationship between the physical body and the spiritual body. This "spiritual seed" you have introduced looks like a pure invention to me. Paul says the physical body is first and the spiritual body comes second because there is a physical body with no mention of anything else as you are adding to the text. That is the way I see it so we will just have to agree to disagree on this, or we will just be repeating ourselves endlessly
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Jesus explained to Nicodemus that "Flesh is born as Flesh. Spirit is born as Spirit." Birth of Spirit requires the death of the flesh, so it cannot happen while the flesh is alive. Those born of Spirit are like the wind and goeth where they will. Know of anyone in a physical body who can do that???
No I do not think it is saying those who are born again are like the wind and go where they will, but that just as Nicodemus does not see where the wind goes so he cannot see the rebirth of the spirit. Furthermore I don't think this is consistent with the other passages in the Bible speaking of being born again like 1 Peter chapter 1 and John 1:13. Thus most Christians have seen this as referring to the many other passages which speak of Christians having been buried with Christ (Rom 6:4, Col 2:12) and been raised again in new life and now being in the spirit rather than in the flesh (Romans 8:9), which is obviously not meant literally that they have died and are now a spirit.
How can you know any such thing? This reaction says more about you, that you don't like any seriousness about anything. That is ok for some people for a while, but remaking the world to be levity only would be a disaster.
Jesus explained to Nicodemus that "Flesh is born as Flesh. Spirit is born as Spirit." Birth of Spirit requires the death of the flesh, so it cannot happen while the flesh is alive. Those born of Spirit are like the wind and goeth where they will. Know of anyone in a physical body who can do that???
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
On 1 Cor 15 I can only repeat what I have already said and shown. Over and over Paul talks only of the relationship between the physical body and the spiritual body. This "spiritual seed" you have introduced looks like a pure invention to me.
It is hardly a pure invention of mine.
From Mark 4:26,
. . . Thus is the kingdom of God, as though a man should cast seed into the earth, then sleep and rise, night and day, and the seed should sprout without his knowing it. For of itself the earth bears the crop, first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear.
Luke 17:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Quote:
No I do not think it is saying those who are born again are like the wind and go where they will, but that just as Nicodemus does not see where the wind goes so he cannot see the rebirth of the spirit. Furthermore I don't think this is consistent with the other passages in the Bible speaking of being born again like 1 Peter chapter 1 and John 1:13. Thus most Christians have seen this as referring to the many other passages which speak of Christians having been buried with Christ (Rom 6:4, Col 2:12) and been raised again in new life and now being in the spirit rather than in the flesh (Romans 8:9), which is obviously not meant literally that they have died and are now a spirit.
The many appearances of the phrases: "born again;" "born of God;" "born from above;" etc. all use the word gennaō (1080: begotten, father of, conceived, from genos = offspring, in turn from ginomai = to become) means to beget, to generate. To beget Is spoken of men (Mt 1:2-16), whereas to bear is spoken of women. The passive voice means to be begotten. The most notable uses of gennao are in the description of Jesus' virgin birth in which He was "conceived (gennao) in her (Mary) of the Holy Spirit." (Mt 1:20). He is described as "begotten (gennao)." (Acts 13:33). gennaō ek theos " begotten of God" gennaō anōthen (begotten from above, from a higher place, of things which come from heaven or God)"born again" anagennaō "born again" gennaō ek pneuma "born of Spirit"
When used in reference to a male (as with God) it always means "conception" NOT birth because males do NOT give birth. So all these references are about a male "seeding"(i.e. conception) NOT a birth. Our Spirit is the result of a "seeding" from God within us as a spiritual embryo. Embryos must mature sufficiently to be born. It is our actions in "love of God and each other" through our lives that achieves that spiritual maturation and determines what we have "built upon the foundation of Jesus" (wood, hay, stubble or gold, silver, etc.) This CONCEPTION by God is what those who call themselves "born again" while still in the flesh are actually referring to, NOT being "born again" as Spirit which only occurs upon our physical death like Jesus.
Quote:
Paul says the physical body is first and the spiritual body comes second because there is a physical body with no mention of anything else as you are adding to the text. That is the way I see it so we will just have to agree to disagree on this, or we will just be repeating ourselves endlessly
We may have to, but I think my case is strong.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 07-01-2016 at 06:23 PM..
How can you know any such thing? This reaction says more about you, that you don't like any seriousness about anything. That is ok for some people for a while, but remaking the world to be levity only would be a disaster.
If you find laughter and humility a disaster, that's your perogative.
Mystic mentioned body and wind. I'll quote:
Let go your earthly tether
Enter the void
Empty
And become wind
I some times wonder if there is any statement at all that can be made on CD that a poster won't get offended over .
Stymies comment was totally harmless, non insulting , and an attempt at humor .
Wow .
Obviously there were no kids present in that house in the mid 2000s. A bit of backdrop: the last airbender explored Hinduism, Buddhism, atheism, and dogmaticism from an adult perspective yet set for kids. Want some pearls of wisdom. Google uncle iroh quotes. It's for all humans, deist, thirst, atheist, agnostic.
'Life is like this dark tunnel. We never know what we'll find. But, if we keep moving forward, we find ourself in a better place'.
From Mark 4:26,
. . . Thus is the kingdom of God, as though a man should cast seed into the earth, then sleep and rise, night and day, and the seed should sprout without his knowing it. For of itself the earth bears the crop, first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear.
Luke 17:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
The many appearances of the phrases: "born again;" "born of God;" "born from above;" etc. all use the word gennaō (1080: begotten, father of, conceived, from genos = offspring, in turn from ginomai = to become) means to beget, to generate. To beget Is spoken of men (Mt 1:2-16), whereas to bear is spoken of women. The passive voice means to be begotten. The most notable uses of gennao are in the description of Jesus' virgin birth in which He was "conceived (gennao) in her (Mary) of the Holy Spirit." (Mt 1:20). He is described as "begotten (gennao)." (Acts 13:33). gennaō ek theos " begotten of God" gennaō anōthen (begotten from above, from a higher place, of things which come from heaven or God)"born again" anagennaō "born again" gennaō ek pneuma "born of Spirit"
When used in reference to a male (as with God) it always means "conception" NOT birth because males do NOT give birth. So all these references are about a male "seeding"(i.e. conception) NOT a birth. Our Spirit is the result of a "seeding" from God within us as a spiritual embryo. Embryos must mature sufficiently to be born. It is our actions in "love of God and each other" through our lives that achieves that spiritual maturation and determines what we have "built upon the foundation of Jesus" (wood, hay, stubble or gold, silver, etc.) This CONCEPTION by God is what those who call themselves "born again" while still in the flesh are actually referring to, NOT being "born again" as Spirit which only occurs upon our physical death like Jesus.
We may have to, but I think my case is strong.
Mystic, you seem learned. We've discussed your revelation. Why limit revelation and quantify with scripture? Jesus hated scripture. I don't proclaim to know God or the truth. I just know limiting is always detrimental.
If you find laughter and humility a disaster, that's your perogative.
No doubt your insertion of words like "humility" to make people say what you want them to say is just your idea of a joke. I just call it dishonest.
If you are just going to laugh when people get sick, that is YOUR prerogative, but thank God some people are more serious about human health.
If you are just going to laugh when there is a big accident, that is YOUR prerogative, but thank God some people are more serious about helping those in who are hurt.
If you are just going to laugh when children are starving, that is YOUR prerogative, but thank God some people are more serious about helping those in who are in need.
No doubt your insertion of words like "humility" to make people say what you want them to say is just your idea of a joke. I just call it dishonest.
If you are just going to laugh when people get sick, that is YOUR prerogative, but thank God some people are more serious about human health.
If you are just going to laugh when there is a big accident, that is YOUR prerogative, but thank God some people are more serious about helping those in who are hurt.
If you are just going to laugh when children are starving, that is YOUR prerogative, but thank God some people are more serious about helping those in who are in need.
I some times wonder if there is any statement at all that can be made on CD that a poster won't get offended over .
Stymies comment was totally harmless, non insulting , and an attempt at humor .
So lighten up already. Is there no room for anything but judgement in your life?
I have plenty of levity in my life, thank you very much! I don't need some comedy junkie telling me I need more.
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