Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have always been curious who wrote the ending of Deuteronomy given Moses was dead then. A ghost writer Had to be after all the infallible folks believe Moses wrote the Pentateuch, so who else could have done so?
According to certain traditional Jewish thought, the Torah was "written" (in fire) some 2000 years before creation and the forefathers learned aspects of it.
So, it was written before the historical events in the Torah took place? I find that interesting. That would present a very high view of the sovereignty of God, which is something I share. One may call me a Calvinist--for the fact that I think he was right on the ideas of predestination and election--but I do disagree with him on some other issues of Ecclesiology.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,926,708 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
So, it was written before the historical events in the Torah took place? I find that interesting. That would present a very high view of the sovereignty of God, which is something I share. One may call me a Calvinist--for the fact that I think he was right on the ideas of predestination and election--but I do disagree with him on some other issues of Ecclesiology.
Calvin also had no compunctions, just like ISIS, to murder those he felt were not devout enough. He was a terrorist.
Calvin also had no compunctions, just like ISIS, to murder those he felt were not devout enough. He was a terrorist.
Keep in mind Calvin was persecuted by others, as well. Having said that, I already said that I disagreed with him on matters of ecclesiology. He was correct as far as Soteriology goes and the sovereignty of God.
So, it was written before the historical events in the Torah took place? I find that interesting. That would present a very high view of the sovereignty of God, which is something I share. One may call me a Calvinist--for the fact that I think he was right on the ideas of predestination and election--but I do disagree with him on some other issues of Ecclesiology.
The question of what was exactly written (if the historical events were or the laws, or if it was a conceptual thing) is debated by the various commentaries.
Interesting that we hear there is no evidence for God, now you're telling the "evidence doesn't fit". OK. I guess we're making progress. The point is though, you just don't believe the evidence. But you really don't KNOW if it's right or wrong--it's just your opinion.
I'm ok with dismissing your ideas in favor of believing scholars much smarter than both of us in regards to textual studies.
Yes. I was warned to talk of no good evidence for God rather than no evidence (even poor evidence). If you think that caveat represents any shift in my accepting tat there is valid evidence ffor a god, you may disabuse yourself. Since I have been here the 'Gaps' - morality, Kalam, Bible reliability, miracles, First cause, life -origins and I/D have all closed considerably or totally.
How persistently you theists insist on a believe or not position! You seem to find it hard to go with weight of valid evidence. That evidence does not support the God -claim and being smart has nothing to do with it. Lane Craig is as smart as any and yet his Kalam argument has been totally debunked. It only works if you assume a god to start with.
According to certain traditional Jewish thought, the Torah was "written" (in fire) some 2000 years before creation and the forefathers learned aspects of it.
Thank you. The first talks of the Torah written in fire before the Creation. But that doesn't explain how Noah heard of it. Specifically knowledge of ritual purity and the method of making a sacrifice. And it goes on to say that Jewish scholars argue against the idea though I don't myself have a problem with it if you parse it as 'written in fire in the mind of God'.
The next seemed to talk more of a sense of righteous behaviour -which you'd expect from those talking to God. But that is not the same thing as a set out Torah of rituals such as Noah would have needed to know about ritually clean animals. Of course, one can Amend the scripture to have God tell Noah all that he needed, but which apparently needed to be given again at mt.Siniai. I personally don't hold with rewriting the Bible in order to correct the omissions and obliterate logical problems..
If you can do a better job that Eusebius (who is reduced to cheering on substitutes while denying that he has been pounded to a frazzle) I shall be impressed...You now have the opportunity to correct my limited and flawed intellectual understanding. Off you go..The 'cloud cover' excuse doesn't work. Moses wasn't there to seee the limited human view of things And if God showed or dictated the creation to Moses he would know the facts better.
your focus is on fighting and debate and arguing and one-upmanship [=the technique or practice of gaining a feeling of superiority over another person], which i have no interest in. i have no desire to impress you or convince you of anything, either, that has no value to me at all.
my point is that since Genesis is an elegant construct and makes perfect sense, if a person has "problems" with parts of it, then it is due to the person's flawed or limited knowledge, information, intellect, understanding.
if you want to learn more then go study, nobody can do it for you.
the more attached a person is to winning arguments, the less they learn and grow and advance.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-15-2016 at 05:12 PM..
my point is that since Genesis is an elegant perfect construct and makes perfect sense, if a person has "problems" with parts of it, then it is due to the person's flawed or limited knowledge, information, intellect, and understanding.
According to certain traditional Jewish thought, the Torah was "written" (in fire) some 2000 years before creation and the forefathers learned aspects of it.
There was no time before creation. There was eternity. How exactly do you place a non existent measure onto it? Saying "2000 years before creation" is bogus, as there was no concept of "year" Or any other measure of time.
What exactly do you mean by "gentiles _____......"? Are we playing one knowledge for gentiles and the other one for the chosen ones?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Had to be after all the infallible folks believe Moses wrote the Pentateuch, so who else could have done so?
