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If this was a stump speech, and if he's pandering, he just ruined his political future. For every LGBT vote the speech may have gotten him, he probably lost ten votes from the straight population of Utah. You obviously don't understand the political climate in my state.
He is in fact running for office, yes? I watched his speech again. I was not feeling his sincerity.
He is a politician, and I am less than impressed with their come to Jesus moments. Far too often those moments are for the cameras.
What this man does from that moment matters. I will not ignore his previous beliefs and behaviors until he changes those behaviors. Words are cheap. Actions matter.
One speech does not do it for me, after a lifetime of demonstrated homophobia.
[color=Navy]I'm rather surprised at the rather negative responses from some people on the thread even though they're no doubt sincere. Seems to some that one is damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Well said. You know, gays are justifiably critical and contemptuous of homophobic bigots. You would think that an apology would be appreciated. Instead, it's just scorned. I guess the assumption is: Once a bigot, always a bigot. As he said in his speech, "Let me be clear, there are no simple policy answers to this tragedy. Beware of anyone who tells you that they have the easy solution. It doesn’t exist. And I can assure you this — that calling people idiots, communists, fascists or bigots on Facebook is not going to change any hearts or minds."
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As you say, this person can only do what he can do and this apology is at least a first step.
That's exactly what it is and what it was meant to be -- a first step.
You know, gays are justifiably critical and contemptuous of homophobic bigots. You would think that an apology would be appreciated. Instead, it's just scorned. I guess the assumption is: Once a bigot, always a bigot.
Well, as they say, "past is prologue". The reaction of some gays to this reminds me very much of the reaction of most women to apologies from a chronically cheating husband ... it has no credibility and even many post-apology years of verifiable faithfulness still leaves open the possibility of falling off the wagon.
I am more disposed to assume he's sincere than most gays, I suspect, but then again, I haven't suffered the overt and structural discrimination that gays have. But I am with homosexuals in this way: despite me not being quite so cynical, I do have to see him take concrete steps to stand with the gay community and earn their trust, before I will hail this as a miraculous epiphany. This is, as you point out, a good first step, but it will have to be dwarfed by many other steps in coming days, weeks, months and years.
That said, from what I gather, he does strike me as a relatively idealistic and well meaning politician and his stance has been widely praised, including by some LGBTQ groups. There is reason to hope it's not just pandering.
As I said before, pandering to gays in Utah is not exactly the most productive endeavor one could engage in. Pandering to the LDS majority would seem to be much more worthwhile. Obviously, as the Lt. Governor, he isn't in a particularly good position to pass any new laws, but I feel certain that Utah's LGBT community will find him standing beside them in the future. For the sake of the doubters, I'll update this thread when applicable.
You are so hard-hearted and cynical in your bigotry that you cannot even imagine someone responding to the truth God has "written in our hearts" because your dogma and "precepts and doctrines of men" have blinded you to even the most basic human decency.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
From what I understand, the LDS church as a whole is kind of pivoting to embrace homosexuality. He's only doing what the church leaders have modeled.
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Originally Posted by Wardendresden
You mean they've had a "come to Jesus" moment? You haven't.
Clearly, that would be the case no matter who embraces the LGBT community as brothers and sisters to be loved, Warden. Vizio's heart is so hardened by the "precepts and doctrines of men" that he allows nothing to penetrate his FODI of dogma. He seems unable to follow the instructions of the New Covenant and trust the Comforter sent in Christ's name to guide him in agape love to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
Well said. You know, gays are justifiably critical and contemptuous of homophobic bigots. You would think that an apology would be appreciated. Instead, it's just scorned. I guess the assumption is: Once a bigot, always a bigot. As he said in his speech, "Let me be clear, there are no simple policy answers to this tragedy. Beware of anyone who tells you that they have the easy solution. It doesn’t exist. And I can assure you this — that calling people idiots, communists, fascists or bigots on Facebook is not going to change any hearts or minds."
That's exactly what it is and what it was meant to be -- a first step.
I don't think I could have said it better. I grew up raised in a fundamentalist Christian home. You would think that meant love your neighbor as yourself but when it came to the LGBT ig meant call them names, trip them while they walked, not include them in any games, and if you beat one up for no reason well, good on you... that'll learn um.
I feel sick to my stomach and can't believe how cruel I was. I honestly remember hating people that never did or said anything to me at all.
A public apology says a lot for me. If nothing more, it's a start for the man. The more we start hearing politicians with speeches like this, the more it becomes mainstream, the sooner laws are changed.
My family almost disowned me when I told them I supported the LGBT community. My uncle (who is a Catholic Priest) told my mother to never speak to me again unless I repented.
I listened to the entire speech. Yes, you could tell parts of it had been edited with a fine tooth political comb. But he seemed genuine, and I'll take him at his word until he proves otherwise. While he is only one person, the simple fact that we are acknowledging his speech means that it has had some impact. If it changes or opens the door for just one person to be more open minded... well then it is at least having some effect.
I don't think I could have said it better. I grew up raised in a fundamentalist Christian home. You would think that meant love your neighbor as yourself but when it came to the LGBT ig meant call them names, trip them while they walked, not include them in any games, and if you beat one up for no reason well, good on you... that'll learn um.
I feel sick to my stomach and can't believe how cruel I was. I honestly remember hating people that never did or said anything to me at all.
A public apology says a lot for me. If nothing more, it's a start for the man. The more we start hearing politicians with speeches like this, the more it becomes mainstream, the sooner laws are changed.
My family almost disowned me when I told them I supported the LGBT community. My uncle (who is a Catholic Priest) told my mother to never speak to me again unless I repented.
I listened to the entire speech. Yes, you could tell parts of it had been edited with a fine tooth political comb. But he seemed genuine, and I'll take him at his word until he proves otherwise. While he is only one person, the simple fact that we are acknowledging his speech means that it has had some impact. If it changes or opens the door for just one person to be more open minded... well then it is at least having some effect.
I really do appreciate your comments. Of course there are many people who will say one thing and do another, but I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt when they apologize. The interesting thing to me is that, as a Mormon, I have always been taught to "love everyone." And yet, every time I have marched in Salt Lake City's Pride Parade (4 times now), I feel condemned for doing so by the people in my own religion. For a Mormon politician to stand up and offer an expression of love to people that have been marginalized by probably 90% of his fellow-Mormons takes guts, in my opinion.
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Obviously, as the Lt. Governor, he isn't in a particularly good position to pass any new laws, but I feel certain that Utah's LGBT community will find him standing beside them in the future. For the sake of the doubters, I'll update this thread when applicable.