Atheists causing problems for Muslims (as they already do for Christians) (Christianity, believe)

[Vizio]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

That's not really an explanation. That's a lame **** unsubstantiated and evidenced claim.

It's what science does. The theory of evolution is a lame, unsubstantiated evidenced claim that is made based on what people have observed.

You can claim that it's all based on experiments and so on...but really, what it comes down to is Darwin looked at the different species and thought they looked like they mutated into one another. He confused natural selection of the finches with evolution, not realizing that the finches remained finches and they did not evolve into other species.

Originally Posted by Vizio

It's the only one that answers the question.

Making up S*#t is not answering anything or explaining it. Here is an answer 'nature did it.' That's an answer therefore we answered it. Wow! Brilliant thinking there Viz!

Originally Posted by Vizio

It's what science does. The theory of evolution is a lame, unsubstantiated evidenced claim that is made based on what people have observed.

You can claim that it's all based on experiments and so on...but really, what it comes down to is Darwin looked at the different species and thought they looked like they mutated into one another. He confused natural selection of the finches with evolution, not realizing that the finches remained finches and they did not evolve into other species.

Glad you agree that that was not an explanation.

As to evolution you don't understand it! Speciation is a fact.

[O.A.Bachlow]

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

Oh you mean like:

The Bible is a book of myths and fiction. - FACT

God is a sky fairy - FACT

There is no life after death - FACT

Yeah umm, facts are proven. Those are not proven.

No one knows for sure. As for parts of the bible...especially the Old Testament...which is a record of bad behavior of a certain tribe...that is fact....What Jesus taught was based on reality and powerful logic...as for your sky fairy comment - The concept of a universal intelligence that we call God is not a concept that is based on physics as we know it. It is beyond our present understanding of physics...like dark matter is.

If YOU think you are a person that thinks and the endless universe does not think or is conscious - then you need to broaden your horizon...it is nice to pigeon hole things to give yourself a sense of personal security - but there are things we do not understand...to deny the existence of a God does not make you smart...all things are possible...stay open.

[phxone]

Originally Posted by Vizio

It's the only one that answers the question. But as I've pointed out before..you guys aren't really after the answers, are you?


If you want to have a serious discussion, calling our God a "sky fairy" really isn't helpful. That sort of thing makes a person look rude. It doesn't portray a nice picture of you. Is it possible to maybe just be nice and respectful?

LOL, this statement is hilarious coming from a person that has no problem with telling some people that they are immoral sinners unworthy of certain civil rights. Do you not understand how rude you are to people that don't share your beliefs?


The big difference I see is that some people may mock a deity that possibly doesn't even exist. While you and others routinely insult real people that actually exist in the real world. You are upset that some people may not give your imaginary friend the respect you think he deserves while you have no issue with disrespecting entire groups of living, breathing humans.

Originally Posted by Vizio

Even if we toss out Genesis, the evidence still points to a Creator. If you have a better idea, let me know. the biochemicals and all that stuff simply has not been shown to provide any explanation. Science USUALLY teaches that life comes from life, so the basic assumption that you can get it from non-life goes directly against any type of scientific explanation.

Hmmmm! Let's see, we don't know how X happened therefor God - now what is this called again? Oh yeah, an argument from ignorance - a well known fallacy - except of course by those well reasoned theists.

As to life coming from life: Now don't equivocate on that term Viz - another fallacy. When you theists talk of science supposedly teaching that life can ONLY come from life that is not only wrong but what you mean to say is that biological life can only come from biological life.

Now if that is true then how do you explain your a-bio-genesis story that life came via an invisible magician (a non biological life according to you) that spoke to dirt and vivooom - biological life. See we both have an a-bio-genesis hypothesis. Of course I already have nature, physics, and biochemistry - you have a god that is not even demonstrated to exist. So who is already ahead in this explanatory game?

That's rhetorical - because any half wit can see that I am!

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by Vizio

What?

Even if we toss out Genesis, the evidence still points to a Creator. If you have a better idea, let me know. the biochemicals and all that stuff simply has not been shown to provide any explanation. Science USUALLY teaches that life comes from life, so the basic assumption that you can get it from non-life goes directly against any type of scientific explanation.


I appreciate your sentiment there. I'm willing to try to have an intelligent conversation. I'm sorry if what I said offends you, and I will attempt to be nicer. I sometimes tend to react in the same manner I'm spoken to--and that is a failing of mine that I need to work on.

As I told Mystic many years ago, I don't do Miff. I don't get offended or can keep it at a distance. Now, as to a Creator, I think the circumstantial) evidence rather supports a natural origin, and we can try the Mods' patience and look at it here. But I don't deny that it is hypothetical, and pointing to a divine spark to get the biochemical to life is...well,, you can't disprove it. And it doesn't really matter.

Atheism doesn't in fact say that no god could have started life, or that we can prove that naturedunnit. What we can say is that the evidence says that it somehow got from biochemicals through RNA, and Replicating DNA, and replication was the real start of "Life'.

The hypothesis is that a long process (and we are talking about s billion of so years, in the theory) had to be gone through to get to replication. But I suppose one can say that it was just made like that in one go. It makes as much sense. Where the speculation ends and the evidence begins is with the pre -cambrian fossil cell collections.Then the evidence clearly supports an evolutionary process with natural selection (which HAS been demonstrated and accepted even by Creationists, who call it "population shift" - though I recall that they accept it is caused by random mutation) driven by survival.

The empty Cambrian oceans 'exploded' with a myriad of sea creatures (not all kinds of creatures - you won't find a gibbon or horse or any land animal in those strata) over a ..what... a half billion years?
The other circumstantial evidence is the Triassic extinction which enabled the dinosaurs to supplant the reptiles, and another in the Cretaceous which allowed the mammals to replace the dinosaurs, and without which we would have no ape -like pattern on which a creator could model us.

Unless you reject the evidence, you not only have to regard Genesis as metaphorical/symbolic at best but you have to ask why this long evolutionary process with two extinctions was needed. A god would have done it just as Genesis says.

Very briefly, that is the case for evolution and naturalist alternative to Creation. Do you want to look further? We have a couple of Eviloohsun threads we could move to. If you prefer to say that you trust the Bible and think the evidence is misinterpreted, then that's an end to discussion, but I have to ask that you keep in mind that we goddless bastards do have a succinct case, though agreed abiogenesis is still hypothetical (though with some explantatory models).

[eddie gein]

Originally Posted by Vizio

What?

Even if we toss out Genesis, the evidence still points to a Creator. If you have a better idea, let me know.

Here is the truth. Ignore that silly Hindu stuff.

In the beginning of time, there was nothing: neither sand, nor sea, nor cool waves. Neither the heaven nor earth existed. Instead, long before the earth was made, Niflheim was made, and in it a spring gave rise to twelve rivers. To the south was Muspell, a region of heat and brightness guarded by Surt, a giant who carried a flaming sword. To the north was frigid Ginnungagap, where the rivers froze and all was ice. Where the sparks and warm winds of Muspell reached the south side of frigid Ginnungagap, the ice thawed and dripped, and from the drips thickened and formed the shape of a man. His name was Ymir, the first of and ancestor of the frost-giants.

As the ice dripped more, it formed a cow, and from her teats flowed four rivers of milk that fed Ymir. The cow fed on the salt of the rime ice, and as she licked a man's head began to emerge. By the end of the third day of her licking, the whole man had emerged, and his name was Buri. He had a son named Bor, who married Bestla, a daughter of one of the giants. Bor and Bestla had three sons, one of whom was Odin, the most powerful of the gods.

Ymir was a frost-giant, but not a god, and eventually he turned to evil. After a struggle between the giant and the young gods, Bor's three sons killed Ymir. So much blood flowed from his wounds that all the frost-giants were drowned but one, who survived only by builiding an ark for himself and his familly. Bor's sons dragged Ymir's immense body to the center of Ginnungagap, and from him they made the earth. Ymir's blood became the sea, his bones became the rocks and crags, and his hair became the trees. Bor's sons took Ymir's skull and with it made the sky. In it they fixed sparks and molten slag from Muspell to make the stars, and other sparks they set to move in paths just below the sky. They threw Ymir's brains into the sky and made the clouds. The earth is a disk, and they set up Ymir's eyelashes to keep the giants at the edges of that disk.

On the sea shore, Bor's sons found two logs and made people out of them. One son gave them breath and life, the second son gave them consciousness and movement, and the third gave them faces, speech, hearing, and sight. From this man and woman came all humans thereafter, just as all the gods were descended from the sons of Bor.

Odin and his brothers had set up the sky and stars, but otherwise they left the heavens unlit. Long afterwards, one of the descendants of those first two people that the brothers created had two children. Those two children were so beautiful that their father named the son Moon and the daughter Sol. The gods were jealous already and, when they heard of the father's arrogance, they pulled the brother and sister up to the sky and set them to work. Sol drives the chariot that carries the sun across the skies, and she drives so fast across the skies of the northland because she is chased by a giant wolf each day. Moon likewise takes a course across the sky each night, but not so swiftly because he is not so harried.

The gods did leave one pathway from earth to heaven. That is the bridge that appears in the sky as a rainbow, and its perfect arc and brilliant colors are a sign of its origin with the gods. It nonetheless will not last for ever, because it will break when the men of Muspell try to cross it into heaven.

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by Vizio

I'm actually down almost pounds in the last 4 months. I've still got about 100 to go to reach my goal. I was a really large guy and I am striving to fix that. That would put me at about what I graduated high school at. Should be doable, because I have a lot less muscle mass now (I used to bench press 350).

What is Myanmar? Is that a porridge of some type?

Burma, used to be. Like me, changed the name. Brought back some PyinOoLwin Arabica after my visit.

Originally Posted by Vizio

It's the only one that answers the question. But as I've pointed out before..you guys aren't really after the answers, are you?

Arq/Trans "Answers is what we are after. You bods are not because you know all you need to, right?"

Originally Posted by Vizio

What?

I mean you already know that God created it so you don't need to look any further. We don't believe that but we can't say exactly how, so we are still looking for the answers.

[Vizio]

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

Arq/Trans "Answers is what we are after. You bods are not because you know all you need to, right?"



I mean you already know that God created it so you don't need to look any further. We don't believe that but we can't say exactly how, so we are still looking for the answers.

Perhaps I'm not quite understanding the phrasing..but what does "You bods are not" mean?

And no--we are not "done looking". We like to see how God did things, too.